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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    It's Alstom and Irish Rail working together. You can't let Alstom take trains out on the line to test them without IR overseeing it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Alstom own the trains until such time all the required safety certifications are completed. Not just Irish Rail, the CRR will also evaluate and review and issue the certifications.

    All running is done currently under engineering possession as the train type is not approved for the network. Its an electric train so there is also a electromagnetic compatibility to be confirmed, e.g its doesn't cause the signalling system to go crazy.

    For the Mk4's there was nothing wrong with the specification, and to be honest its doubtful any manufacturer could have met the ride spec. Irish Rail just didn't manage the project as well as is could have been. The 29000 fleet project management was very good, quality etc. The legal people did get involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 244 ✭✭Qaanaaq


    Does anyone have the latest estimate of when the new dart trains are due to start running on the Drogheda line?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    January 2026 was the last official date, although “early 2026” was said too, so that’s any time up to May/June next year I suppose.. The necessary signalling infrastructure is almost done. The trains seem to be doing well too. As mentioned in the video (posted on the previous page), the next step is to test on overhead power, and also to test the charging system at Drogheda; that’s expected to be complete “by the end of this year”, so January is actually a possibility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Once they get clearance to test under OHLE things get easier. There is enough range to get to Drogheda and back without charging so the absence of the charger in Drogheda isn't a problem for testing, but is an absolute must for daily operation and milage accumulation.

    The push is for early 2026, Feb doesn't look like a bad estimate currently. We should see sets pounding up and down the Northern line in Nov/Dec for training and milage accumulation

    The real funky stuff is the ETCS managed OHLE-Battery transitions where the train itself will automatically raise and lower the pantograph on the move



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Where will they be charging them when they are running on battery? My understanding is that they won't be charging on the OHLE while on their way to / from Malahide? Is there charging facilities in Fairview?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,631 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The batteries can charge up while braking, regenerative braking. goingnowhere can probably correct me, but they also can probably just be plugged in while sitting at the depot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    They will be charged at Drogheda but the charger isn't ready just yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    There is a static charger in Inchicore, but its slow in comparison to the Drogheda setup. Irish Rail has long used 3 phase 380V power for its carriage fleets so I'd imagine its easy enough to use the shore supply the Enterprise/Mk4 fleets use to charge (slowly) if that was needed

    No significant charging while stationary, coasting or accelerating as this would overload the OHLE system.

    Modelling suggests if you did all stops Drogheda to Bray and then did all stops Bray Drogheda you would leave Malahide with a full battery so in theory Malahide-Drogheda can be done for free.

    The spec is for 80km range at end of life on the battery (7-10 years) so the range today new is significantly more



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    So they will charge at Inchicore and then come over to Connolly, pan up to Malahide, battery to Drogheda, crucially, while Drogheda is not ready, no charge there and then back to Malahide by battery.

    Then again, pan up, but no charge.

    Can they do a second run to Drogheda?

    Basically, they won’t be getting much mileage accumulation until they get the fast charge in Drogheda functioning.

    Or just run them along on OHLE for longer? With the congested network this will have to be at night.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    You can run all stops Drogheda Bray in a loop without need for charging in Drogheda, open the doors on the wrong side at stations

    That would be classic shakedown testing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    I thought there was a safety system in place to stop the doors opening on the wrong side on these trains. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There probably is, but in order for that to work, I suspect you have to tell the train’s door controller what side is “correct” for each stop. The train won’t know if you’re lying to it…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭p_haugh




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,324 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    ”Iarnród Éireann currently have a multi-party Qualification System for large Civil Engineering Works associated with the upgrading of the railway infrastructure or Rosslare Europort and other related works that Iarnród Éireann may undertake directly or on behalf of Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus or CIE on their properties. This Qualification System currently has three lots: Lot 1 – Civil Works €5m to €10m, Lot 2 – Civil Works €10m to €20m, and Lot 3 - Civil Works €20m to €50m.

    IÉ intend to establish 3 additional lots under the above Qualification System (QS) relating to Design & Build (D&B) requirements.

    It is intended that these requirements will be used to undertake various works in conjunction with large capital projects, such as DART+, Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR), East Coast Railway Infrastructure Protection Projects (ECRIPP), etc.

    The extent and details of these works will vary from location to location. All project works shall be tendered to those companies, depending on the selected lot, approved for inclusion on this Qualification System under the chosen lot. Companies may apply for one or multiple lots and can apply for inclusion at any stage of the Qualification System’s duration. ”


    Looks more like a pre qualification tender or a notice that tenders are going to be released rather than an actual tender. Can anyone provide further analysis?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,370 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    This is a pre qualification so they have a list of contractors signed up ready to roll and thus can perform a shorter tendering process once they can proceed with works.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,324 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    They can proceed with works though…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 Eduard_The_2nd


    Any idea on what kind of "engineering" works are happening between the grand canal and greystones on May's public holiday?

    Also, are the new DART cars going to ditch the overhead cables?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,910 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Some of the new DART cars will have small batteries to allow short runs on unelectrificied track, for example beyond GreyStones



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    The batteries are intended as a temporary measure to get around the glacially slow Irish planning system. It is hoped that by the time the batteries reach their end of life, the OHLE will have been extended to where it needs to be.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 Eduard_The_2nd


    Thank you both for the response.. well that only leaves me with wondering what kind of engineering works are they really doing to shut down the trains from grand canal to greystones for 4 days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Probably fairly standard periodic maintenance, they recently re-laid the track over the loop line bridge, so maybe a continuation of that work?

    Electrification works will be much more significant and likely take place over a much longer period of time than 4 days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,722 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It’s 3 days.

    Presumably track relaying and overhead line maintenance that requires an extended engineering possession.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,604 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Also continuing work on the new station at Woodbrook (though it looks like it's nearing completion).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Thunder87


    They did the same on the northern Dart line last week, it was closed all Easter weekend. I saw a few workers doing some work on the overhead wires between Portmarnock and Howth Junction so I'd assume just routine maintenance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 310 ✭✭danfrancisco83


    When will a decision be made on the preferred site?

    The options assessment is underway and it is hoped to have identified a preferred site in Spring 2025

    *************

    Any update on the depot, are there any hints about the preferred location?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,008 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    A new potential depot site has emerged, near Dunboyne which will be advantageous for a future Navan extension.

    DART+ North will now not face an oral hearing.

    Apparently one of the 2 JRs on DART+ West is now resolved



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,324 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Do you know which one was resolved, and which one is outstanding?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,008 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    I believe the car show room is resolved and the haulage company is still going ahead with a court date at the end of June.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    They are relaying the tracks at Sydney Parade level crossing over the weekend.

    They may be doing other work elsewhere, but the SP level crossing itself is closed all weekend.



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