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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 468 ✭✭8mv


    As reported on the news this morning, he's willing to enter talks to discuss the underlying causes of the conflict, as he sees them. In other words to discuss the capitulation of Ukraine. **** that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mulbot


    You're wring in your presumption of what I meant, the comment another poster wrote was about "everyone knows Putin wants to build a bridge" it's not a literal bridge, but you know that, I'm asking where "everyone knows" about this information



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mulbot


    No i was talking about the European "leaders", the guys who think they can defeat Russia, the same guys who advised to fight to the last Ukrainian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Of course, but the main theme of my response there was that we shouldn’t be looking at the death of a million Russians as something to cheer about. I for example want Ukraine to succeed in their defence and for them to defeat the Russian Federation in this war, but that doesn’t mean that I want to dance on the mass graves of the Russian soldiers.

    Violence may be nessisary to defend our freedoms from those who want to take them away, but that doesn’t mean that it has to cost us our humanity. Nor should it shouldn’t cost them 1 million dead (and the Ukrainians), when it’s the fate of only one man which might solve a lot of their problems…and ours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,758 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "the same guys who advised to fight to the last Ukrainian. "

    Do you have any evidence that these "same guys" exist or is it part of your delusional outlook on the world?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭yagan


    A lot seem to be older middle-aged who signed up for the vodka.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭jmreire


    No, that's not the EU Leaders plan, that'd Putins plan, and he doesn't give a damn if he has to kill every last Russian to do it! From Timothy Snyder:-

    https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxOpk0OoOotKDLhjWFIJsfXwk27hEf3-X_

    And here's Alexander Dugin's

    Russian Dugin's take on Ukrainians LOHse6XoAA-N5B.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,378 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Unusual to see Putin under a fair bit of pressure. Europe and Ukraine issued him with an ultimatum yesterday and he then had to issue a live statement to the media in the middle of the night Moscow time. That doesn't sound like someone who is controlling the narrative or who 'holds all the cards'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mulbot


    No, they've literally stated many times, remember the guy Boris Johnson, yea? He repeatedly said it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    He'll be back to Nazi's in Ukraine, NATO advancing and protection of Russian speakers rhetoric again, just to stall and delay any unconditional ceasefire.

    Ukraine and it's European allies will see through it, but I fear Trump may fall for that spiel.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭munsterfan2


    Russian day celebration on in imwm again this year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,662 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    RuZZia always enters talks and even agrees to treaties. So what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Kremlin apologists active today i see. Europe must be doing something right.

    Putin turns down a European backed ceasefire but somehow europe are the warmongers? Make that one make sense. Haha.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    From watching the news and reading about it for the last 20 years.

    Russians, public officials, leadership have often made comments about connecting Kaliningrad to Russia. When Lithuania stopped transit in 2022 they said such a move "untied their hands" to address it by any means - aka force

    Russian state TV has mentioned it multiple times. It's not uncommon for them to reference invading or nuking European countries (including Ireland)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    I honestly think the idea that he is going to march all over the Baltic's and create a new Soviet Union is fantasy.
    Does Russia have the capability to engage in another conflict resource wise?

    If that was the true goal. Why not invade and completely occupy Georgia in 2008 as an example?

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    "Warmongers"

    Democratic Ukraine was not a threat to nuclear-armed Russia - he's not stealing their grain or forcing their kids to learn Russian for security reasons. It's conquest. Which Putin can end it at any time of his choosing.

    It's a war of choice for him.

    Price have gone up, instability has gone up, inflation rocketed up - literally no one wants this. Now we all have to spend billions on defence.

    You're trying to spin that as we "want war" because we are spending money to defend ourselves. Does Finland want to invade Russia? No. Does Lithuania want to invade nuclear-armed Russia? Of course not. It's spending money on defences to avoid and deter Putin.

    Putin is engaged in hybrid warfare with the whole of Europe. He's already invading one European country.

    Here's a picture from Russia's Channel One when they were discussing wiping out the UK and Ireland with nukes

    image.png

    Literally the exact same thing happened with Hitler. Countries around him desparately started to spend more on defense, why? Because he had plans to invade them. Countries around him joined defensive alliances, why? Because he had plans to invade them.

    He spun them as war-mongers who were "surrounding" Germany, just as Putin is doing now. Imagine supporting that narrative in 2025.

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Well I'm watching and reading longer than that, never have seen official Russian statements discussing any bridging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's unlikely he will black and white Hitler style invade the Baltics tomorrow - that's not considered imminent.

    The Baltics are preparing for a time if/when NATO is fragmented, when the international order may have changed, when far right parties are in power, etc.

    I remember people breathlessly claiming he would never invade a European country, that NATO would never be under threat, that Trump would never get into power, that the world order would never change - etc, etc, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,658 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "Literally stated many times."

    Just none you can actually provide from an official source - because that's the standard you set for others on this thread.
    So if it was literally stated many times as you have phrased it, it should be easy to cite.

    You wouldn't be spreading Russian disinformation would you?

    This manipulative thesis is spread by various pro-Kremlin speakers, followed by the Russian media. Russian propaganda also says that, in addition to Ukrainians, the "collective West" allegedly intends to sacrifice residents of the Baltic states and Poland. As StopFake writes, the call to "fight to the last Ukrainian" is attributed to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. In fact, Johnson did not call on the Ukrainians to die; on the contrary, he warned the Russians that they would defend their country - and if necessary - to the last drop of blood. The leaders of the G7 also did not push Ukraine to fight "to the last Ukrainian"; instead, they expressed their readiness to share the burden of this struggle and pledged to provide Ukraine with indefinite support in defense against Russian aggression.

    https://disinfo.detector.media/en/post/the-west-wants-to-fight-against-russia-to-the-last-ukrainian

    https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/boris-johnson-as-uk-pm-sabotaged-istanbul-peace-deal-in-2022-ordering-kyiv-to-fight-till-the-last-ukrainian/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I can't account for cluelessness on anyone's behalf.

    It was no secret Putin wanted to invade Ukraine - but he wasn't making official statements on it, on the contrary Moscow was denying it was going to invade right up until days before the actual invasion.

    Likewise with absorbing Belarus or moving forces into Lithuania, the Kremlin isn't making official statements. They don't have to, for example, in 2022 Russia registered a bill with the Duma to repeal recognising Lithuania's independence, Russia TV has repeatedly shown war-games in which Russian forces overrun Baltics including Lithuania, the head of SVR said the Baltics would be the first to go down in any conflict with NATO. Russia has repeatedly and long expressed a desire for a land-bridge to Kaliningrad.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Before you call me clueless (something I think the mods don't allow, or maybe they do with those that support Ukraine) you should know that I have a huge understanding of this from the Russian perspective. You're really just regurgitating the west perspective.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mulbot


    Spreading disinformation, seriously, what nonsense. There's being countless statements from the warmongers in the west about continuing the fight against Russia, a fight that has already shown that Ukraine can't win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,686 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Putin is like a Lada running out of Gas, stalling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,662 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So, where's your official source that @odyssey06 asked you for. As was pointed out, Boris Johnson didn't say what your RuZZian sources says he did.

    So, come across. Where's your source?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,758 ✭✭✭macraignil


    putin has left no other choice for Ukraine than to fight and defend themselves. It has to be the right choice to fight back rather than simply get killed by terrorists. This war is completely manufactured by putin and there is no shifting the blame from the side that has invaded Ukraine in spite of treaties to respect their internationally agreed borders. No one in the west needs to encourage Ukrainians not to get killed by putin's terrorists and trying to shift the blame for this war to anyone beyond putin and his supporters is just sick disinformation that you are consistently spewing onto this thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Putin is invading Ukraine to conquer it, to subjugate it. There's no threat from Ukraine, there's no valid reason, there's no "Russian side to the story". It's a Hitler style invasion, he wants the land, he wants to absorb the country into Russia - and he's using bombs and missiles to achieve that.

    It's completely illegal and there's no validation for it whatsoever.

    He can't directly admit this so he has conjured up warped history, mental gymnastics and crude propaganda.

    His apologists parrot this stuff. Most of them are individuals who will support any leadership for being opposed the US/West including dictators who would not otherwise follow their beliefs.

    It's an inconsistent and hypocritical stance.

    Perhaps you are from Russia and are a direct Putin supporter I don't know.

    However if you are Irish, then you only need to ask yourself the question if Putin were doing the same to us, would you be making any of these comments? The answer is no.

    Would you be claiming that European nations coming to our aid are warmongers? No.

    Would you be attempting shift blame away from Putin to absolve him of responsibility? No.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mulbot


    No he isn't, that's again more nonsense. There's 2 vastly different parts of Ukraine, I shouldn't even have to get I to that, but this is a pro Ukraine anti Russian thread so I won't hang about arguing with the comments from those that have the West only perspective.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Sorry, but russia's current occupation of east ukraine is only because of their utter ineptitude when they started the invasion.

    They are, 3 years in, stuck at basically 0 effective progress and have seen russia militarily taken off the map as a major superpower where years of corruption was laid bare for all to see.

    But it is noted that you are turning tail to run again, mulbot, when asked to back up the points you are trying and failing to make.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 7,067 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Aris


    Mod note:

    @mulbot

    I will advise you to tread very carefully. Any more digs towards other posters or moderators, and you can expect a ban.

    Thank you.

    2025 gigs: Selofan, Alison Moyet, Wardruna, Gavin Friday, Orla Gartland, The Courettes, Nine Inch Nails, Rhiannon Giddens, New Purple Celebration, Nova Twins



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mulbot


    That's ridiculous, their concentration has always only been the east, there's enough information available to know why, even back to 2014 when the like of the BBC etc were reporting from there.



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