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Are asexuals 'fake oppressed'? **Mod Note in Post #221**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,452 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Yes, it's an attempt to maintain the "no debate" tactic, which TBF worked really well for several years: if you repeat your talking points ("JKR is a hateful C… who deserves to burn in hell") - but without ever explaining what she's actually said that deserves that level of hatred, some people will take a "no smoke without fire" approach, and will assume that nobody would say that if there weren't something to it.

    But the truth is, there is nothing to it.

    They won't "debate" their opinions because they can't. All they have is their hatred of anyone who disagrees. Because they disagree.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,954 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Totally agree & well said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    I don't think Rowling deserves to burn in hell but without a doubt she is extremely anti trans.

    I mean she constantly says she thinks trans women are men? I know Rowling lovers will argue that's not transphobic but it just objectively is. What we are actually discussing is if you think being transphobic is a bad thing.

    Do you think we are blind? She pushes every single conservative and TERF talking point about trans people and she hugely supports many prominent Gender Critical people who's entire jobs are writing articles and books with anti-trans propaganda. Helen Joyce doing her little Final Solution chat, Rowling said naught.

    The fact that the anti trans posters defend her so virulently, I doubt it's because ye are huge Potter fans ...Ye are just very aware she's number 1 transphobe and de facto leader of this bigoted movement.

    Her attacking asexual people proves her motivation is not protecting women and girls but a social media addiction to being hateful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,954 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Many millions out here who hold JK Rowling in very high esteem. Personally I think she's a great lady who calls out bullsh** when she sees it. She is most highly regarded by those women who have been attacked and raped and who seek refuge in her Edinburgh rape crisis shelter. She herself is a victim of physical abuse, for sure so she takes no prisoners when it comes to defending reality & stamping on the madness of gender ideology whilst also giving moral support to women like Sandie Peggie for example. Helen Joyce another great (Irish woman) in the fight against the ideology. Both women suffer massive amounts of abuse for not capitulating to the trans lobby. Massive support for both of them from the silent majority of the population both here and in the UK.

    Getting back to asexual awareness day.

    If some people feel like nonsexual beings, then that's cool, more power to them (and they deserve just as much love and affection as the rest of us), although having an actual flag for asexual awareness day does seem a bit silly and counterproductive.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Now see this is where we meet disagreement.

    The "anti-trans" people, of which I assume I am one of, do not dispute the existence of trans people. The argument is that we should feel obliged to ignore basic facts of biology and confirm that we believe that they actually are the opposite sex. Which is a blatant lie and frankly a dangerous stance. Women and men are not interchangeable and are different from each other. No matter how staunch your belief is, doesn't change that fact. So we are being told to state something as fact when we know that it is not true. That is unfair and not an honest representation of how we think.

    When it comes to the topic in hand, I think, like me, she feels that the asexuality day of awareness is a little silly. Considering that the day of awareness was mostly promoted online, anyone who was meant to become aware of it would have the ability to do a quick google and realise they aren't alone. The day of awareness, in my opinion, was just posturing by people who want to appear progressive. Anyone saying anything to the contrary are likened to bigots etc by these same people.

    Unfortunately the promotion of such "awareness days" does little except further alienate people who may be suffering. On this thread alone, the only person who said they identified as asexual was told they weren't to be believed and were being disingenuous by someone who claims to be supportive of the day of awareness.

    Be kind indeed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    She herself is a victim of physical abuse

    I feel sorry for her.

    43.5% of Asexual participants reported having experienced sexual violence.

    I also feel sorry them, she doesn't though, they are to mocked, bullied and ridiculed.

    Not the actions a reasonable person would consider from a "Great Lady".

    But everyone gets to set their own barometer.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can't understand how anyone seriously argues that being trans magically transforms someone into the sex/gender they want to be. I know it's a bit of a trope, but if you believe that, then it follows you must believe those people that dress up and act like dogs are actually dogs, those adults who pretend to be babies are actual babies etc. It requires a complete and utter suspension of reality and disbelief.
    Nobody with a basic level of intelligence really believes this, they simply can't. It is akin to believing the earth is flat, or that there are pots of gold at the end of rainbows.
    I cannot take the views of anyone arguing this seriously, as I simply cannot believe that they themselves actually believe it, and assume they are arguing it from a purely dogmatic point of view ("this thing is part of my belief system therefore I have to pretend I believe it even though it is clearly nonsense"). I treat it the same way I treat religious people - I have no problem acknowledging their beliefs, I have no problem with them holding those beliefs, but I will not be bullied into pretending to believe them myself. This is often framed as denying the existence of trans people or "erasing" them. This is nonsense. I have no problem acknowledging the existence of trans people - I know a guy who has lived as a woman for years. Just as I have no problem acknowledging the existence of people who believe in God/Allah/Jehovah or whatever. I have no problem with them believing whatever they want. But I also have no problem in highlighting the complete disregard for reality those beliefs require.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Like most of them at their core, they are just homophobes consumed by their prejudices.

    But it isn't fashionable any more to be one, all though it is creeping back in with the clusterfook that is America at the moment.

    So in order to practice their bigotry they have set their sights on the more marginalised.

    It would be funny if it didn't have such serious and real life repercussions. But imagine a decade ago, people musing do you know who have had it too good for too long, Trans and Asexual people, they badly need to be taken down a peg or 2.

    Queue Harry Potters Mother.

    Her hatred will become more pronounced as the mask slips more, we have seen this now with unprovoked attacks on people who are asexual.

    Who last month thought they needed to be put their place?

    She is just a bigoted bully, it's not complicated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭crusd


    I have to believe you are being deliberately obtuse as otherwise…

    Awareness days on any topics are aimed at people who that information is relevant to. How is that such a difficult concept to grasp!

    So its not that I am challenging your right to have a different opinion. I am challenging the basis for your opinion being a misrepresentation of what the thing is in the first place. And its what an awful lot of people pass off as "expressing their opinion" these days. Misrepresenting what it is and then base their disagreement on the misrepresentation.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It is my choice not to engage in debate with TERFs and transphobes on this platform.

    That doesn't mean I can't, just that I've made a conscious decision to not waste my energy or time on people who have already demonstrated, on thread after thread, that their minds are closed to any and all kinds of orientation or gender diversity, and all they want to do is shout about themselves. So have at it.

    But I'm flattered y'all are so desperate that you keep trying to bait me into responding to you. 😊

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    People who believe men and women aren't interchangeable and that a lack of interest in sex doesn't need to be promoted are just homophobic?

    That's one of the most fantastical stretches I have seen.

    Bravo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭crusd




  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    You believe what you want. My opinion has been stated repeatedly and succinctly so you are free to interpret that as you wish.

    I stand by my words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,452 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    See that 43.5% you quote there - how many of them are, you know, women?

    Because if you ask women in Ireland, how many of them have experienced sexual assault, it's over 50%.

    According to the 2022 Sexual Violence Study taken by the Central Statistics Office (CSO), 52% of the women surveyed had experienced sexual violence in their lifetime. Of those women, 49% did not disclose what had happened to them to anyone else.

    So going by your own figures, "asexual people" are less likely to be sexually assaulted than women. And guess what? It's being a woman that's the danger factor, not being "asexual".

    Cos I'd bet a large sum that women who identify as "asexual" don't immediately find their risk of sexual assault dropping to 43.5% - I'm 100% certain that it remains just as high for "asexual" women as for all other women.

    That's why all this nonsense about "sexual identities" is harmful - it misrepresents who is actually at risk.

    And in a world where women are not only regularly sexually assaulted, or even murdered for not wanting sex, but also, in some countries, refused education and married off by force to make them more available for sex, I think it's harmful to women to pretend that there's a problem for "people" who don't want sex. There's a problem for women. Whether or not they "identify" as asexual.

    Like I said way upthread, the real discussion here should be about consent. And JKR is entirely correct to point out how ridiculous it is to have a day of awareness for "people who don't want sex" when women are regularly raped and even murdered for not wanting sex.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭crusd


    No, its the attempt to subvert the topic and turn it into something it isn't. The glib statement that started the whole thread was about people "who want complete strangers to know they dont fancy a shag" which is either a gross misunderstanding or a deliberate misrepresentation which either way warrants addressing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭crusd


    You are still parroting the line the "awareness" is "promotion"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,938 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    So some posters seem to just seek every excuse to rave about transgender people. It's a bit sad tbh.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I think, like me, she feels that the asexuality day of awareness is a little silly.

    So, with no evidence at all, you have decided that she thinks the day is a bit silly.

    And an appropriate response to that is belittling those people? Making fun of them?

    'Be kind' is right 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,954 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Its about making people aware that there are others (asexuals) who do not want sex or have no interest in sex or getting to know the opposite sex!

    Correct ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,938 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    It's a lack of sexual attraction. It has nothing to do with their ability to form loving relationships... So apparently you're still struggling with the definition.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You missed the point.

    No one who should be subjected to sexual abuse or assault should be ridiculed, bullied or mocked, especially by people who lean into their own experiences or the experiences of others to justify their bigotry and hate.

    Like I said way upthread, the real discussion here should be about consent. And JKR is entirely correct to point out how ridiculous it is to have a day of awareness for "people who don't want sex" when women are regularly raped and even murdered for not wanting sex.

    You mean like Asexual women, the ones she went out of her way to bully and mock?

    Bit like JK you are all over the place.

    Between this and your assertion that information about asexuality will lead to more forest fires, I don't know if you are actually taking the píss or you believe this nonsense?



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Yes. My opinion is that it is silly. The evidence is purely anecdotal and I won't bore you with it. But my opinion is as valid as yours.

    But no, I don't think people should be belittled or made fun of for their lack of sexual attraction to others. But amplifying this personal preference doesn't help, but rather hinders, the acceptance of that particular worldview. When something that falls outside the "norms" it will be called out for what it is. Unusual and strange. That's not a negative but if you want to make people aware of it, expect people to respond and say that that is a little unusual.

    If you have no attraction sexually to others, that's your own business. It should be respected but I can't for the life of me see why I, or anyone else, should be aware of your sexual desire or lack thereof.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    When the OP mentions JK Rowling, it is pretty much guaranteed that at various stages in the conversation people will also comment about trans issues such is the vitriol surrounding that person for that topic. I think most people have tried to keep this on topic though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,954 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Super, thanks.

    Still not convinced we need a special day plus a dedicated flag for them though.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Suddenly words mean something?! Let's see how consistent you keep that.

    Please inform me how that making people aware of something isn't "promoting" the "awareness"?

    Semantics be damned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    You've spent the entire thread confused about what asexuality even is, maybe a special day to spread awareness to the "confused" feels worthwhile to them

    Also I can't believe I have to say this but don't post on Boards while you are driving.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭crusd


    People to whom that information may be relevant - eg. those with no interest in sex who may believe that there is something wrong with them and they are alone or people who may be in a relationship with someone who has no interest in sex and they believe that there is something wrong with them or their partner may be playing away and getting it elsewhere.

    Also, being asexual does not mean people have no interest in getting to know the opposite sex. Romantic relationships are often very important to them and the fact that romantic relationships are often tied to sexual relationships would drive anxiety, fear and loneliness. The understanding that there others like them and the understanding from potential partners can be helpful. In fact an asexual person and someone with a regular sex drive in a relationship can and do have a meaningful sexual relationships when there is understanding, just not as often.

    But no, its all about the crazy asexuals shoving it in peoples faces apparently.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Not one person said that.

    Nobody called asexual people crazy apart from you.

    The fact is, people have more information available to them with a couple of keystrokes.

    Niche visability days, I would argue, do more harm than good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,938 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Might not have called them crazy but you did seem to reduce it to a kink repeatedly. What harm is awareness causing? So far it just seems like some people trying to find a non existent issue with awareness.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,719 ✭✭✭apache


    If awareness can help people not feel alone I'm all for that.



This discussion has been closed.
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