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Senior ministers concerned about effects of Occupied Territories Bill.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,430 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Why is this question interesting? The Saudis are not normally held up as an examplar of good global citizenship. Various considerations go into the question of how Ireland should respond to Israeli measures against Gaza, but "how are the Saudis responding?" seems to me one that would come pretty far down the list.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    How do you determine good global citizenship? There is no objective test of that, it is informed by cultural preferences. Saudi Arabia, US and others would argue that they are adhering to the doctrine of non-interference and that makes them a better global citizen than Ireland. There are holes in that argument, but there are also holes in the argument that Ireland is a better global citizen.

    The example of the Saudis is interesting, they are looking at Gaza and thinking of the balance between sanctioning Israel and thereby giving succour to Hamas and Hezbollah and the longer term implications of that for their own self-interests even though they are a fellow Muslim state. In thinking that Ireland has gone too far and is not acting in its own self-interests, one isn't necessarily condoning Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Saudi Arabia is next to Israel and Palestine, has same religion and Arab culture and pretends to care about the Palestinian cause

    I say their actions are rather a bit more important than what is meant to be a neutral European country with wildly different religion and culture 4000km away

    Especially since Saudis have enough money to make Gaza a modern Dubai like city on the med

    BTW what is our government stance on the Sudan genocide being carried out by Arab nationalist Islamists which killed 4x people in same timeframe as died in Gaza?

    oh that’s right, the Left doesn’t care about Islamists carrying out a larger genocide of black people somewhere in Africa bankrolled by gulf states



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭taratee


    Saudi Arabia was looking to normalize relations with Israel before October 7th. It might very well be the case that they plan to continue down that path when the war ends. Such a move would be a huge blow to Iran and its allies around the world, and a significant step toward peace in the Middle East.

    The Irish political class has managed to dig a massive hole for itself regarding Israel, and the OTB is the next level. The penny has finally dropped for some of the more experienced ministers that this vacuous virtue-signaling has gone too far. Thankfully, the hole isn't too deep, and a few apologies—particularly to Israel—once all of this 'genocide' nonsense is put to bed (as it likely will be), should undo the damage they have caused.

    Am Yisrael Chai - Bring them home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The whole Irish approach to the Middle East reminds me in terms of its effectiveness of the Skibbereen Eagle being determined to keep an eye on the Russian Tsar.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,403 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    If this was any other country (other than Israel or England/Britain) waging war on Palestine there’d be next to no fake concern here in Ireland. Whole lot fake concern based off the “weren’t we oppressed for 800 years” brigade..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    Any country carrying out that level of destruction and attempted annihilation of a people would be met with the same response, Israel are not special enough to be singled out in that regard, they just happen to be the **** doing exactly that at present.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    There is a thread here in parallel about Sudan genocide started by Islamists in 2023 around same time as HAMAS kicked off the shitshow in mid east where 4x people have been killed

    That thread barely has a dozen replies compared to the 5-6 active threads on Israeli stuff alone including this one

    That’s proof right there that there is an anti semitic angle and not all genocides are treated equally



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    That's likely not helped by the fact that you started the thread and seem to only be using as an attack on people who have an issue with the genocide in Gaza. Worth pointing out that most of the West have sanctions against Sudan over it as well so the international community have actively taken action.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭taratee


    Duplicate post.

    Am Yisrael Chai - Bring them home.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    I clearly outlined why I started the thread

    1. To bring much needed exposure to it because no one else cares enough to have done so, despite crying crocodile tears about Gaza
    2. To create an experiment exposing that yes some genocides are being treated differently to others which might indicate an antisemitic or pro Islamist bias (or people simply not giving a ****)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    The anti semitism angle doesn't work sorry, Israel does not get to hide behind that excuse. It's equivalent to saying that someone seeing a an Israeli guy kicking the head off someone in the street can't intervene because it would be anti semitic - complete **** nonsense. Act the bollix and get called out for the bollix acting, simple as that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭taratee


    I've read some awful nonsense on this forum at times, but that is right up there with the worst of it.

    Am Yisrael Chai - Bring them home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    Oh I've read the absolute **** you post before and won't be engaging with you, get lost troll.

    Mod: Warned - uncivil

    Post edited by Leg End Reject on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,045 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Any country that drops 2,000 pound bombs on families living in tents and continues to murder children, over 20,000 now, does not deserve anyone's support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,045 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,045 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Caught out again. He saw straight through you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,931 ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Boards is worse for it in fairness than real life, we unfortunately have to put up with it because these sour individuals have driven off so many people to the point where the site is now dead without them. They were all banned already from the main Israel-Hamas thread for their shitery, but because without their trolling and abominable opinions the place became too quiet. Yay



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    That's a very cowardly point of view in my opinion. Let me sum it up - The tiniest risk that my monthly salary will be impacted by a Dail bill completely trumps any concerns around the wanton murder/starvation by Israel of women and children in a destroyed Gaza.

    Before you shuffle off this mortal coil, I think you will regret fearful opinions like this. In years to come you will probably say you never held this "I'm alright Jack" opinion. Quick, check your bank balance!

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,101 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I don't want my salary or standard of living impacted for Palestinians or anyone else.

    It has nothing to do with us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    That's 100% clear. Even the miniscule risk of this happening has ye running scared. Honestly it shows a lack of character to me. Call me old fashioned.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭political analyst


    If the killing of civilians in the IDF operation in Gaza was murder then the killing of French civilians in air raids that British and US forces carried out with the intention of killing German soldiers in France in June 1944 (e.g. the bombing of Caen) would have been murder. If the IDF operation was genocide then the Allied bombing of the 3rd Reich would've been genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,045 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    Let them take their blood money and **** off, parasites. If you find yourself impacted go find another job, preferably one that isn't run by denizens of the 4th Reich or requires you to let the annihilation of a people slide off your conscience lest your employers get a bit miffed and take their ball home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,592 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    If there was even a minuscule chance of Ireland’s support for the bill having any positive effect on Palestinians’ lives, that would be one thing, but given that it will have zero effect, it’s unserious of the Irish government to take that risk of damaging Irish people’s economic wellbeing for zero effect on Israel.

    The fact that you personally are not affected by that, or have the financial means to ignore it, is not a justification for the Irish government to ignore the best interests of its own citizens.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Jaysus. You are comparing the German army to Hamas? Hamas haven't been a viable threat for many many months and yet 100 innocent civilians were killed last weekend by IDF. The killing goes on indiscriminately despite the fact Hamas are well and truly beaten. Have they even fired a bullet in the past month? What threat do they pose? The Geneva conventions were brought in after WW2 and Israel isn't abiding by any of them. Too many war crimes to count. Look at the destruction of all the hospitals for the prime example.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Zero effect? Why are Israel getting upset about it then?

    Ah look, you guys won't change your opinion. I personally see it as cowardly and shallow. So be it. You're completely entitled to it.

    Maybe you can get the government to turn a blind eye completely. Would it be possible to ban all negative Israel news on RTE? Could we get Shatter to edit the news? That might work best. We can get back to fumbling in the greasy till then.

    I made my point a few weeks ago on this here:

    Israel closing their embassy in Dublin *Read OP for Mod Warning added 19/12/24* - Page 17 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭political analyst


    The threat is the likelihood of Hamas doing more October 7ths if it's allowed to rule Gaza ever again. There are no Jewish settlements in Gaza and so the OT Bill is a separate issue. There's no evidence that the manufacturing of products in settlements in the West Bank causes harm to Palestinians there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    The “I’m alright Jack” opinion is with you - you’re obviously well off enough to be able to afford any negative consequences of this performative (and ultimately pointless) bit of bluster

    Some people have mortgages and children to support or are trying to buy a house. They need their jobs. It’s not a reasonable trade off to expect them to endanger that for something that isn’t actually going to accomplish anything apart from piss off our biggest economic partners.

    Grand for homeowners already sitting pretty or students. Normal people have to be more pragmatic unfortunately, welcome to reality. Makes no odds anyway, you’re alright Jack



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Irrelevant waffle. Own your opinion. Own your silence. I made my point and value my honour more. Miniscule risk. And fcuk the US warmongers and the arms industry if they have a problem with us.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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