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Senior ministers concerned about effects of Occupied Territories Bill.

  • 03-01-2025 5:49pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,779 ✭✭✭


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-over-impact-of-occupied-territories-bill-on-us-companies-in-ireland-ahead-of-renewed-government-formation-talks/a1087630091.html

    Although FF & FG are committed to passing the Occupied Territories Bill (OTB), senior ministers are concerned about the effects that it would have due to strict US laws that ban companies from complying with unsanctioned foreign boycotts.

    Does it not occur to the leaders of FF & FG that there is a likelihood that, if the OTB is passed, companies whose headquarters are in the US will withdraw from Ireland and thus increase unemployment?

    Surely, the Irish government is supposed to put the people of this country first.

    Why risk our economic stability over a conflict that is nothing to do with us?

    Are FF & FG not bothered about antagonising the incoming government in Washington DC?

    In an article published in the Indo on New Year's Day, Ian O'Doherty wrote, "People may argue that the Government's position was justified, but politics is about enlightened self-interest and making sure you don't irritate your biggest benefactor. That's simply the way of the world, whether people like it or not".

    The consequences of the OTB for Ireland could make the economic crisis that began in 2008 look pale by comparison.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    O'Doherty could just have stated 'politics is about hypocrisy'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭Jim Herring


    Ireland has recently reopened an embassy in Iran. Perhaps the ayatollah and his axis of evil will help us replace any jobs lost in Ireland,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Lots of people consider the North of Ireland to be an occupied territory.

    How would the bill deal with that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    What a stupid hill to politically die on over people who hate everything about our way of life and repress half of their own population



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭Randycove


    I’m surprised this is going ahead. FF/FG have done enough to form the next government, so they don’t have to worry about SF and their popularity support for Palestine for another four years.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭uptherebels




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 987 ✭✭✭scottser


    Ian O'Doherty steals a living by conflating self-interest for scruples. He doesnt know the meaning of 'doing the right thing' so be wary of taking ethics lessons from him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Don't worry about Ian - the bill will not be going ahead; the war is largely over and Hamas is suing for peace as their leaders in Qatar are scared shirtless and will not keep up the effort to appease Boyd Barrett and Mary Lou



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,779 ✭✭✭political analyst


    The government doesn't seem to have scruples about doing business with the Chinese government.

    I'm not saying O'Doherty has been right about everything but the following claim, which he made in an article published on 14 February last year, turned out to be correct.

    "Many traditional Democrat voters have grown increasingly resentful of their party's apparent obsession with social justice matters such as transgender rights, the Black Lives Matter movement and, bizarrely, their repeated and entirely unworkable calls for reparations for slavery. Most middle Americans care not a jot for these fringe issues - they are more interested in how much money they have in their pay packet at the end of the month."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,195 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I don't get the obsession with Palestine in this country.

    It's a conflict going on forever. It's nothing to do with us. We have no influence over it. I'd wager that most people probably couldn't even point to the area in question on a map.

    Personally, I have sympathy for the victims on BOTH sides, but that's about it. I frankly don't care enough (and I dare say most people are the same) and I don't get why the Government do, especially at the potential risk of annoying one of our biggest economic benefactors.

    We have more than enough serious problems and issues here to sort out if the politicians need a "cause". You might even call it a mandate!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,779 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Northern Ireland is not an occupied territory - the Republic renounced its constitutional claim in the Good Friday Agreement, not that any country ever recognised that claim!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,442 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    given that trump claims to be about america first anyway, passing this bill is the right thing seeing as if he is true to his word, whether we annoy one of our biggest economic benefactors makes no difference anyway as they won't be one of our biggest economic benefactors going forward.
    of course in reality, it will be down to the individual companies and passing the bill makes no difference either way as a lot of them if they do have any ties to israel, are removing those ties due to instability and economic unviability of those ties due to israel's economy crashing.
    so passing the bill is still the right thing and will have little effect in reality.

    ireland has already saw for itself what happens when you pander to a group because of religion, it gave us 30 years of a war.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Yellow cake processing or maybe a drone factory?

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭Jizique


    That last paragraph makes zero sense.....

    Are you trying to suggest that pandering to catholics (north and/or south) led to a 30 year war? O



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,442 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ireland saw how britain pandering to the hardcore loyalists worked out, it gave us a 30 year war and an apartheid state before it.
    and yes ourselves pandering to the catholic church caused it's own, very well documented problems.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Coolcormack1979


    how many people in the republic actually give a damn about the Isreal/gaza thing.take out student union types like Boyd Barrett and Murphy as far as most think there’s wrong on all sides.

    They’re kicking the shite out of each other since biblical times and you know what they’re going to do it for millennial to come.

    Time to grow up and ignore it and actually worry about our own country,children and future



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Dump it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,717 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It is never a mistake to do the right thing. Evil deeds must be confronted. 20K innocent children murdered is very evil.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,442 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the fact we aren't ignoring it is the grown up thing.

    your version of grow up would be us acting like children and pandering to a religious fundamentalist genocidal racist apartheid state who have been getting away with criminality since it's very foundation.

    ignoring this conflict is not an option because while israel keeps being pandered to the land grabbing and genocide will not end with palestine, and that means the likely hood of a substantial refugee crisis.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭Jizique


    And if anyone loves opening the doors to a good refugee crisis, it is Ireland



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,065 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Is passing this virtue signaling bill such a priority and necessity for Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,065 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    couldn’t agree more. It reeks of insincerity on our part. Just wanting to be seen to be doing the “right” thing. Sticking our snouts into other countries’ affairs that have nothing to do with us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    Homelessness record broken again this month and this is what the government are concerning themselves with. Political grandstanding that will not achieve anything substantive in reality just so people can **** themselves off over how virtuous we are.

    Let’s continue to criticise Israel for their actions on this ugly war upon Palestine’s civilians. That is enough, no need to piss off our biggest global benefactor passing pointless gesture bills.

    A bit of bloody realpolitik ffs, let’s put some focus on the housing catastrophe that is ruining the lives of an entire generation of this country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Yes, it really hacks off all the genocide apologists



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    According to brains in parallel thread we won’t be accepting any Palestinians as that would amount to enabling genocide



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    The I'm alright Jack mentality have taken over Ireland. Examples all over this thread but we see it everywhere. So what if a load of Palestinian kids are getting slaughtered, I ate in a nice restaurant last night. Oh there are people fleeing war torn countries, nevermind, I still got to spend a few grand at Christmas.

    It's embarrassing what we have become. I'm not saying we used to be all saints but the greed and selfishness of many Irish people these days is shameful and goes against what the majority of Irish people stood for in the past.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    https://x.com/finegaelbrux/status/1875535857844945114?s=46

    This is fúcking insane.
    Regina Doherty openly acknowledging that she expects economic backlash from the US and MNCs for the OTB and they’re going ahead with it anyway

    Actively risking the jobs and livelihoods of Irish citizens so they can sit around sniffing their own supposedly morally pure farts from wine glasses.
    Absolute parasites, they don’t give a shít about Ireland or her people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,065 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    Speak for yourself. Huge numbers of Irish people are massively struggling at the moment, as evinced by the monthly record breaking homeless figures

    The Irish people and their difficulties should be the priority of the Irish government. That is their job.

    What, Ireland enacting the OTB is gonna stop the slaughter of Palestinian children is it? Is that what’s on the line in this made up dichotomy you’ve dreamt up?

    You're correct it’s embarrassing what we’ve become - a load of preachy, finger wagging, self aggrandising dopes that only care about showing everyone how virtuous they are. Easy to act the big moralist with vain gestures that will accomplish nothing but risk other people’s livelihoods when you’re already sitting pretty yourself. I’m alright Jack is right.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Huge numbers of Irish people are really struggling. The I'm alright Jack cohort shrug their shoulders. Where did I say the OTB was going to stop anything, I was talking about the people who don't care that thousands of Palestinians are being slaughtered because they are comfortable. These are the same people who don't care about Irish people struggling.

    So stop preaching and finger wagging and get your facts straight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,065 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    What “level of care” do you expect people 1000s a miles away from Gaza to have? This bill doesn’t mean anyone “actually” cares. It’s a self-serving virtue signaling exercise that people (in this case, politicians), come up with.. similar to the folks with their Palestine flags on their social media accounts. Gimmickry and attention seeking insincerity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    All this woke, “right on” stuff needs to go away and never come back. At this stage seems to be a deliberate tactic by western governments to keep us distracted from the real issues.

    Who cares about Palestine? Like seriously this obsession on fringe social issues that seems to pervade every aspect of Irish politics is a scourge. Who cares about a hate speech bill that will likely not affect 99.9% of us?

    Can we get back to focusing on things that really matter like our crumbling health service, housing crisis, cost of living, homelessness crisis etc etc the list could be as long as me arm. You know, like the things that actually matter to the Irish citizens who elected you to look after their interests, not the rest of the world’s.

    I’m sure all the fine people getting up in the morning to do a days work in an American MNC will be thrilled when they lose their jobs. I hope good sentiments and virtue signalling will keep them warm when they can’t put the **** heating on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    They’ll be grand as always so who cares if some plebs lose their jobs 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,764 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The government was already warned by the outgoing US ambassador last year of the consequences of this on the state, the ability of American companies to even trade in Ireland due to US laws about unsupported boycotts, and that was a Democrat.

    I can only imagine the bluntness of the conversations with the incoming ambassador.

    In short you don't need to worry OP because it won't be happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Aside from the large amount of irish families struggling , there's always going to be wars going on somewhere and people dying around the world. So...Irish people can't dare to be comfortable or enjoy their lives until there is world peace and no one ever dies? Preaching at and shaming people for just living their lives thousands of miles away from and having nothing to do with any conflict isn't really going to do anything is it? Besides feeding certain people's sense of superiority that is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    It’s worse than that, the religion and culture of those people is completely and violently opposed to our way of life and cultural notions like equality for women, free and fair elections, freedom of religion and being anti slavery

    Feck that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Stop the preaching, you say? 🪞

    I’d nearly understand this crazed rush to sacrifice the Irish economy for Gaza if there was any practical consequence that could actually come out of this but there isn’t. It’s sheer performative virtue signalling.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    goes against what the majority of Irish people stood for in the past

    Mmm. Some worthy principles alright, such as sending young men off to stand with Franco’s fascists against the elected Spanish government.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,419 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Well, if we pass the OTB, a hell of a lot more Irish people will be really struggling, or living elsewhere. Is that what you want?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Maybe read the thread. People don't care about thousands of people dying as they can only think of themselves. The same people would step on an Irish person on the street, they're the modern people who took the soup. As I said, greed and selfishness in abundance.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Maybe we should joined up with Churchill's thinking and starved millions of people to death because they were lesser than him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    That was always the policy of FFG, Irish people emigrating was a good thing for them and they depended on it to form their budgets. You're a supporter of FFG so don't pretend you have any concern for ordinary Irish people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Nice little whataboutery there, well done you.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Just responding in kind except my whataboutery was actually accurate unlike yours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,419 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You misunderstand a lot. Firstly, I am not a supporter of FFG, I voted Green in the election.

    Those concerned about the OTB are misguided at best, and at worst, like SF and the PBP, just want to bring down the system here and have no real concern for Palestinians or anyone else.

    We haven't had net emigration for decades, and it is those who support an OTB who are determined to bring it back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    What would you have these people do?

    The vast majority of people in this country absolutely denounce the actions of Israel and feel sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians but beyond that I don’t really know what you expect people to do in practical terms - it’s a conflict thousands of miles away that has nothing to do with us.

    Moralistic grandstanding from you isn’t gonna save any lives either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,419 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Stop pretending that you have any concern for the people of Palestine or indeed the Middle East.

    Israel isn't the greatest threat to ordinary people in the Middle East. The regimes in Afghanistan and the one in Iran with its puppets in Hamas and others are the ones who are the greatest danger. Where are your protests against the Taliban imposing a requirement for no windows in kitchens to hide the women away or their ban on women training as midwives, which will only lead to a huge increase in deaths in childbirth?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    No whataboutery from me: off-topic if you like, but I was only responding to someone else’s (that’d be yours IIRC) off-topic performative grandstanding about Ireland’s lost nobility of soul.

    Post edited by volchitsa on

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,764 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Screwing ourselves isn't going to help a single Palestinian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    But there’s such a nice warm glow from all the virtue-signalling!

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?”



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