Senior ministers concerned about effects of Occupied Territories Bill.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037062#Comment_123037062

I wonder will Trump take any action here? I'd say they are quaking in the Vatican.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2025/0109/1489856-israel-gaza/

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037616#Comment_123037616

It’s the very worst form of Student Union politics - a bunch of pretentious frauds who prefer to make grandiose statements on issues over which they have no power whatsoever rather than bother with the boring grind of actually working to resolve their constituents’ problems.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037631#Comment_123037631

Remind me again how many American MNCs support the economy of the Vatican?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037666#Comment_123037666

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. However I see it as a great and correct decision and the fact that it irks so many genocide supporters makes it even better.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037674#Comment_123037674

I didn't count them but probably a good many -

https://fortune.com/2020/12/08/council-for-inclusive-capitalism-with-the-vatican/

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037624#Comment_123037624

I didn't notice your hero, Eamon Ryan, saying anything against it.

I see sheep

Mustn't upset our American masters, sur it's only a bit of Genocide.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037700#Comment_123037700

Last I checked, there were 0 employees of American MNCs in the Vatican. Perhaps you know as a few.

As always, it is those who have no stake in something that make the loudest noise.

Irish Aris

Can I ask a question for those with better knowledge on the topic?

If passed, what exactly would that mean in day-to-day terms?

Reading from the 2018 bill text on the House of Oireachtas site (hopefully this is the correct source), it mentions occupied territories as confirmed by ICC, ICJ or international tribunals. In this case this would mean the West Bank, right?

From that I would understand that if goods are generated in other areas of Israel (i.e. Tel Aviv, Haifa etc.), they are not covered by the bill. That would hardly consistute a boycott of Israel. Chances are a very small (if any) volume of goods coming from Israel would be from the West Bank, I'm open to correction though.

It just feels like a token bill, that will have very limited applicability and might not be easily enforceable either.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123037942#Comment_123037942

Ah so it's for personal reasons that you don't want a genocide and war crimes called out. I see. Lives mean nothing as long as you are collecting your shilling.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038049#Comment_123038049

That isn't what I said. Putting the welfare and health of every person in this country on the line for a conflict that we have no stake in and can have no influence on, is not something worth doing.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038243#Comment_123038243

Yeah yeah, the sky will fall on our head too.

Listen to the fear mongering. Fairytales.

I just can't understand this mindset.

walshb

As bad as the fairytales of the faux-concerned who think this virtue-signalling bill matters a jot to Israel and its campaign in Gaza!!

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038295#Comment_123038295

It's much much better than taking the cowardly way and saying nothing which to me is as much as backing their genocide.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038243#Comment_123038243

The ' welfare and health ' ?? Are you afraid of them bombing us?

Miniegg

I have never met and Israeli or Palestinian, am ignorant of Judaism or Islam, could barely tell you the difference and couldn't care less. At least I know I'm ignorant tho, yet the sleuths on here who know less than I do feel qualified to tell how the world really works.

I've seen loads of posts from people here who defend Israels conduct rife with calling Palestinians/ Muslims barbaric, terrorist or terrorist supporters, telling us how they hate us all and want us dead, they are invading Europe etc etc. loads of posts portray them as the enemy or inhuman - just like was done to us. It just comes across as blind ignorant hatred and they seem to use any excuse to justify this war.

I obviously knew about the Israel Hamas war, October 7th etc, but personally took more notice of it as I saw a video about 3-4 months ago showing two little girls (2-4 years old) being carried onto a hospital bed in Gaza by two lads. They were dead, one was missing the top of her head, just above the eyes. The other little corpse was in terrible state too. They were the same age as my daughters, same hair colour and build, had v similar clothes on. They looked strikingly similar and all I saw was them.

It shook me then and I'm still shook thinking about it and that is just one incident of these horrible attacks on civilians. You c**ts can all stick your "virtue signalling" jibes up your hole. I donate a small % of my hard earned money to help the people there and fully support the government for calling this out.

Irish Americans are a powerful force in US politics no matter the persuasion - we have a voice on the world stage.

Irish Americans are often more republican than people here - if their view is reframed to see Israel as akin to Britain, and Palestine as akin to Ireland as many here do, that is a threat to Israel as our peoples influence in American business and politics is enormous. That is why Ireland CAN make a difference here in stopping the slaughter and I've no problem with us making a stand if it can bring peace.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038315#Comment_123038315

You are prepared to sacrifice the wellbeing of the people of Ireland for the people of a country run by Hamas, I am not. It is as simple as that.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038252#Comment_123038252

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/daniel-mulhall-israel-s-decision-to-shut-its-dublin-embassy-is-a-bad-day-for-diplomacy/ar-AA1we21t?ocid=Peregrine&apiversion=v2&noservercache=1&domshim=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1&batchservertelemetry=1&noservertelemetry=1

Just listen to Dan Mulhall, a distinguished former diplomat who knows far more than you and I do.

"In the months ahead, we will be best served by doing what we do as part of concerted EU action and not making ourselves too much of a target for retaliatory measures.

Our litmus test should be ‘what can we actually achieve’ weighed against potentially adverse consequences for our vital relations with the US."

"Both countries have now said their piece, and the priority should be to calm things down and de-escalate the situation."

He puts it much better than I do, but the clear implication of what he is saying is that we should bin the OTB. I really can't understand the mindset of people who would throw our prosperity away, all for the people of a country run by Hamas.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038448#Comment_123038448

Nonsense. We did the right thing. Someone has to stand up for the innocent people and i'm glad we did. Anyone who makes threats against us for that is as bad as the people committing the war crimes.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038807#Comment_123038807

I think I will go with the experienced diplomat's views rather than yours, if that's ok with you.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038836#Comment_123038836

That's fine. I'll back our Government.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038844#Comment_123038844

Will you still be saying that when they shelve the OTB?

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038448#Comment_123038448

Hamas is only in charge of Gaza. There are millions of oppressed Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem, Golan etc.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038849#Comment_123038849

It is Gaza that is being bombed, isn't it?

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038854#Comment_123038854

Yes it is. The bill refers to the areas I mentioned in my last post.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038848#Comment_123038848

I'll back our Government and anyone who calls our War Criminals. We also backed S. Africa's case with the ICJ which is great. I'd be disappointed if we stepped back from either because it is important to me to see justice done wherever and whenever it is being abused. I think of all those innocent children every day who are dying through no fault of their own. We can't be like all those German citizens who stayed quiet even though they knew what was going on in the Death Camps.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038873#Comment_123038873

We weren't German and we are not Israeli.

And we did stand idly by while the German were committing genocide and many others too.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038944#Comment_123038944

Maybe another reason not to do it again then.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038836#Comment_123038836

Oh no, not the "experienced diplomats" views!!

Let's all think like the experienced diplomat. Open your eyes. Think for yourself.

Murder is murder. Value your principles or count the shillings.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038944#Comment_123038944

When did Ireland learn about the holocaust and when did we stand idly by? What should we have done?

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038849#Comment_123038849

There’s currently continuing inter-Palestinian skirmishes going on in the “West Bank” as Hamas tries to take control there - but, of course, our government ignores them as they can’t use them to condemn Israel.

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039195#Comment_123039195

An idiotic argument given that we did exactly that in the case of the Rwanda genocide - which in a hundred days resulted in up to a million deaths and hundreds of thousands of rapes.

Also the mere fact that you use the word “genocide” for the conflict in Gaza, which has casualties figures nowhere even remotely close to those of Rwanda, is clear evidence of you applying a different set of standards for a conflict involving Israel to those involving other countries - and that is antisemitism as per the IHRA definition of antisemitism as adopted by the EU and every EU member state bar Ireland and Malta (which Israelis regard as being moderate).

Kermit.de.frog

There are many unflattering stereotypes about the Irish around the world, some more realistic than others.

What the advocates of this nonsense are suggesting is this…

That we take an action against another state that will have zero impact or consequences on that state or it's victims but will have very serious consequences and impacts on this country and every person in it whether you work, are a pensioner or depend on welfare.

Those stereotypes will look more like accurate descriptions and it would be deserved.

The Israelis will be laughing their asses off as the US does the damage to us on their behalf.

That's how stupid this is.

Kiteview

Just in case anyone isn’t aware of it, Jews worldwide and Israelis in particular now regard Ireland as being rabidly antisemitic. Some even claim that Ireland may even be more antisemitic than most Arab countries.

The withdrawal of the Israeli ambassador wasn’t just out of pique but rather in direct response to that perception.

Ireland’s intervention in the ICJ case is regarded as a crude attempt by Ireland to have the definition of genocide changed so that the court can then convict on the basis of that new definition.

Needless to say the Israelis are of course aware that we made no effort whatsoever to condemn or sanction the US and the U.K. for committing “genocide” in the post-9/11 wars which, according to the Washington Post, resulted in 4.5 million civilian casualties (900,000 directly as a result of combat, 3.6 million indirectly due to disease resulting from damage to infrastructure such as water, sewage, food supply etc). And applying an entirely different standard for a conflict involving Israel to the ones applied for conflicts involving the US and the U.K. (or other countries) is clear antisemitism.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123036408#Comment_123036408

I stated in another post to you that anyone guilty of war crimes should be held to account. So I am not avoiding anything. It's not a numbers game, we don't ignore what the Serbian War Criminals did on the basis that someone else committed a much worse genocide . Is it racism, islamophobia that some people ignore the crimes of Israel? You seem to be in agreement all instances of genocides and war crimes should be condemned, so you must be equally annoyed at right wingers who excuse Israeli war crimes.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039744#Comment_123039744

You must also have a problem with us intervening in the ICJ case against Russia, seeing as we made no effort to sanction the UK or US, it clearly is a case of Russian phobia rather than Ireland acting out of principle. Ps you don't speak for all Jews or Israelis,Kiteview:

https://archive.ph/lScWd

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039733#Comment_123039733

I actually have a pretty close Jewish friend who lives abroad, they are pretty firmly in agreement with the Irish stance on Israel's criminality. I equally recall seeing at least one family member of a man who died in the November attacks who was strongly opposed to how Israel was responding.

j62

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039830#Comment_123039830

The thread on Sudanese genocide titled as such has less than a dozen replies while there are a bunch of Israel related threads running to hundreds of pages

That’s proof right there that yourself and the left in Ireland are a bunch of virtue signalling hypocrites

Quite possibly also anti semitic, pro Islamist and even racist

Some genocides are more worthy of virtue signalling than others

It must be embarrassing to have all the talk of genocide exposed to be so hollow

Mod: Warned for soapboxing and spamultiple threads.

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039713#Comment_123039713

The actions in the West Bank by the PA are against a new grouping of secular and non-secular organisations and are an example of the utterly corrupt nature of PA.

Fuascailteoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039996#Comment_123039996

Everyone can see exactly why you started the other thread and no one is taking the bait.

walshb

Tellin ya, this is far more about let’s bash Israel than we’re so concerned about Arab Muslims… empty/vacuous concern.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039996#Comment_123039996

I have nothing to be embarrassed about , if you'd desist being disingenous you'd acknowledge I don't excuse any genocide or war crimes nor do I try to excuse one on the basis of getting into a numbers game. Your assertion is as asinine as me concluding that your condemnation of the war in Ukraine is hollow because you didn't start a thread about the war in Ethiopia or any other conflict that was ongoing at the time. I can't speak for other people, but perhaps there is less focus on Sudan because we don't have apologists for what's going on there. I haven't seen anyone trying to defend the genocide in Sudan.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038315#Comment_123038315

That's black irony, given the record of Palestinian terrorists in the west, as well as Palestine-adjacent supporters. However I suggest that one possible effect on health from the open antisemitism on display in Ireland might come from that leading Israel and any of their supporters from being involved in the Irish healthcare industry. Look at how many vaccines and other health innovations have been made by Jews: if they decide that Jews are not safe in Ireland, it is Ireland that will lose out, not Israel.

And given the abuse and threats that an Irish family, the Keanes, have been getting, merely for their husband/father having been employed by an Israeli football team, months after he ended his contract there, that's a reasonable concern for any Israeli citizens.

Still, I suppose if it makes you happy that Claudine Keane and her children are getting dog's abuse, that's all good, right? And not even antisemitic at all, seeing as they're not Jewish. Hmm?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040242#Comment_123040242

Speaking of vacuous concern, walshb, you must be sickened at the Americans condemning the Sudanese genocide while staying silent and enabling acts of genocide in another theatre. I wonder did you accuse people of vaucous concern over the war in Ukraine because they were silent about numerous other ongoing conflicts at the time.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040761#Comment_123040761

can spin and twist any way we want. Looks ridiculously clear to me that all this OTT “poor Palestine” guff over here is not remotely sincere.

It’s much more because of who is the aggressor, Israel. The whole Israel are the big bad “British” occupiers/colonialist and Palestine are the “Ireland” oppressed.

said it before, if it was any other country/kingdom besides Israel/Britain at war with Palestine, we’d be a whole lot quieter.

We’re appearing nothing but desperate to be seen by the world to be sympathetic.

I personally think what Israel is at is too much. It’s OTT defence

taratee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039713#Comment_123039713

Ditto for the media. They’re happy to ignore what’s going on in the West Bank at the moment because they can’t blame Israel for it. If Hamas takes control of the rest of Palestine, the government will have to do an embarrassing U-turn on Palestine and the OTB being discussed in this thread. I hope the international media shines a bright light on it when they do, and that the resulting embarrassment makes them think twice about their conduct regarding Israel moving forward. We should be building bridges with and supporting countries like Israel—countries that share the same Western values as us.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039733#Comment_123039733

You don't even know that genocide is not based on numbers then -

According to the Convention, genocide is a crime that can take place both in time of war as well as in time of peace. The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as 

a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part

.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040713#Comment_123040713

More whataboutery and deflection. Our Gardai will deal with the people who are abusing the Keanes. They won't murder them though and they'll treated properly not like the Gazans that Israel deals with.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123041098#Comment_123041098

Are you suggesting therefore that October 7th was an act of genocide? It meets your definition.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123015121#Comment_123015121

In fairness, Blackbox said the North of Ireland, not Northern Ireland. Perhaps they meant Donegal during July?