Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

"System" is going to become the new "identity". Just another buzzword that doesn't actually mean all that much but everybody keeps repeating it anyway.

Was thinking the exact same...don't think we have any chance either tomorrow against an inform Newcastle..draw would be a decent result

Mitten was very Friendly with Erik Ten Haag, to the extent that Mitten was one of the 1st people he rang after he was fired. I'm sure hed have connections fwith Jose and Ragnik too. Ole is obvious.

There's zero reason for Mitten to make anything up really

I remember a 4 nil win to UTD back in the day, I think Liverpool went down to 10 very early. But outside of that, all games between them seemed to be tight.

Club has gotten way to sift since ferguie left, if Amorim needs to make his reign his own he has to set the bar somewhere.

There was no such thing as player power when Fergie was about. We've had some pedigree in managers since in LVG and Mourinho and still the rot has set.

I really like this new guy and what him to seriously succeed and build his legacy here.

Unfortunately players now have too much control which stiffens what thus club is about.

They have themselves higher placed than the badge they wear.

It's going to be a rough time for a bit till we see the good times.

Need to stick by this new coach and ride the waves for now. Chopping and changing managers hasn't helped in the last 10+ years, players are a different story. Full clear out and keep the ones that play for the badge and recruit lads that know the importance of what it is like for playing in a man utd team that has had huge success and want to be a par of a proper rebuild.

That isn't what he was doing, least not what I got from it anyway. Did you watch the full segment?

It's deeper than just player power and managers, there is something wrong in the background too and if anything it has gotten worse since Radcliffe has taken over. Other clubs don't have the same issues that United have with player power, so the club itself is giving too much power to the players or indulging them too much instead of backing the managers. United have had some decent managers since Fergie left, yet none have managed to get the best out of the squad they have had, Mourinho did OK for a season or so and EtH had a decent first season, but, fell apart after that. Amorim has a huge job on his hands to turn United around, as the setup around him is not right, United will continue to struggle until the whole setup at the club is all on the same page and pulling in the same direction.

I know what system and identity is supposed to mean, my issue is that lately people have rather been using terms like these very lazily.

All you heard about Ten Hag was that there was "no identity", and it was just a pretentious shorthand for "He isn't winning games and the tactical setup is a bit ****".

Now Amorim can perform as poorly as he wants and it will all be handwaved away as being part of "changing the system". Doesn't matter what you do as long as people think the "systems" are being changed somewhere.

I think forcing discipline and winning games always does wonders for a clubs identity, and using the tools at your disposal most effectively is a proven system, but then I'm not Europe's hottest new manager.

My understanding is that he can sign a deal with foreign clubs from today. If that gets fully signed off from both parties, the optional extra year in his contract wouldn’t have any bearing on that if it wasn’t exercised before hand.

If results continue as is, I have a horrible feeling that Amorim will be sacked by next season. Or he walks.

Either way, it would sum the current state of the club up for me. There's something seriously rotten in the background. And unless Amorim is a miracle worker, and so far that doesn't appear to be the case given the results, he'll end up being another victim of a broken club. You have to feel sorry for him walking into this mess.

It just feels like every aspect of the club is badly run.

The medical/fitness crew, it's inconceivable at this stage how badly our players fitness is compared to other clubs, how routinely they get injured, and how long do these injuries take to get right, and how often there's set backs compared to other clubs.

The stadium needs no comment, a new one is needed badly. But given the financials, can they even afford it at the minute?

What's the story with transfers? They've been a disaster for a while now, either ridiculous money to players big clubs have decided weren't good enough, or injury cases. Is there any thought put into transfers other than "say a name, stumble around for a few months, get fleeced to buy them to save face for all the hype"?

What's the coaching in the club? It doesn't seem to be good at all. Set-pieces have been a disaster, defending has been a disaster, ball retention has been a disaster. Chopping ang changing managers obviously doesn't help, but where's the coaches within the club? Every other club has a core group of quality people coaching to a philosophy and the manager comes in and adjusts it to his needs, why are United 10-15 years behind every other club.

Youth development seems to be going ok, we've got something out of, but we seem to destroy any youth that comes through to the senior team within 2-3 years.

Yes, the players have to take some seriously blame for the state of the attitude in the dressing room, but a lot of these players have played for top teams or are international team-mates to players playing in top clubs who run things properly, I can't imagine how depressing it is to come in to work every day and know you're not only starting well behind everyone else, but things are getting worse and not better. It must be persistently dispiriting, and leading lads to just take the money and not care too much.

INEOS were the great white hope, but honestly, the club looks as badly mis-managed as ever, except more of a soap opera.

And the likes of Amorim, and the players, while they should be doing better, will not solve anything if the structures in the club are a festering steam if 5hit.

Between badly needed stadium plans, the current financial mess, the current playing staff, the internal setup of the football side of the club, it could easily take another 10 years before United are able to spend decent money to be competitive again, assuming they spend it right.

PS - On the Ashworth saga. Say what you want about him, but he did help implement a plan for long term development of English players, a plan that has really come on to the point that England are legitimate favourites for tournaments. At least it showed some level of long term planning. He was director of Brighton when they came good too. United went for him clearly because he has something.

It was no secret he wanted Southgate for the United job. But I'm starting to wonder was his fondness for pursuing Southgate as manager a short term (18-24 month) solution to steady results and keep them competitive with a squad he knew would be hard to change much for another year or two, something an international manager would be perfect for, while the club put in the obviously badly needed structures in the background to get the club up the scratch before pushing on, only for INEOS to pull the rug?

Pure speculation and probably nonsense, but watching Ashworth go after 5 months, I wonder did he have a stability plan that was dismissed out of hand for a "magic bean" solution of bringing in a manager to replace a manager they should have fired five months previously. Southgate wasn't the greatest manager, but he did manage to work with the same group of players for some time and push them nearly to the top, and at least had them working hard. Two years of that type of management, especially with money being tight, to get something properly set up in the background would make sense to a director of football. And him walking/being pushed was him taking on the powers in the club to stabilize things and rebuild rather than rush it will silly money for poor quality.

It's just speculation, but I'd have to wonder if INEOS have a clue, because if they don't, then the structures within the club will just keep chewing up good managers and good players, and spit them out as garbage. And I'm starting to think INEOS don't have a clue.