Manchester United Thread 25/26 - Teamtalk/Transfers/Gossip Mod Note in OP 26.09.24

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000452#Comment_123000452

Ya don't need Southgate there to be putting structures in with the plan to then have said structures in place and get change manager to make use of them. Isn't it more beneficial to have a manager in, to guide the structure building to build them in a way he'd use or in some generic way, all the while the manager is coaching players in his way with a longer term goal in place?

Maybe I just can't stomach the thought of Southgate being the manager there

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000474#Comment_123000474

That's a good point.

But I was thinking more along the lines of the squad. United have spent ridiculous money on transfer fees and even more so on ridiculous wages, and that means they'll likely not have much money to spend on any quality any time soon, unless there's a massive clear-out.

International managers are used to working with the same core group of players with very little change in personnel. If you got two years of steady if unspectacular results working with a group of players where there might not be much changeover, the type which a Southgate would offer, in order to set up structures within the club and sort the financials, it might a decent short term plan to get your house in order, or at least keep it steady.

I'd take a bit of steady if unspectacular right now if it meant proper structures/personnel are put in place to provide long term competitiveness and success.

Nigzcurran

Id happily take a draw tonight, need to steady the ship especially at home cause if we lose another few games on the trot there is the possibility the manager will quit before he reputation is ruined. Hard to see what he can do to change the attitude of the players who seem doomed to repeat themselves no matter who is in charge. I know it's impossible but we really need to ship out the majority of underperforming staff and start again with players from a lower skill set but better attitude and then gradually improve the performances. Not going to happen nowadays though because time is the one thing that you don't get at any club. I like the manager but it just feels like Eric all over again as these players just aren't the right fit for a club that needs fighters

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122999667#Comment_122999667

Tbf the managers were all decent, Van Gaal & Mourinho both top managers who knew how to win trophies, but, probably not suited to how United want to play. Ole I think wasn't good enough and only got it because of his history at United, but, actually did OK. Rangnick was a strange appointment, but, knew what needed to be done at the club, probably should have been brought in as Director of football than as manager. EtH seemed to be making inroads in his first season in getting rid of the dead wood, but, ending up buying more expensive dead wood like Antony and Hojlund. Amorim has been tossed into a shitstorm, so will be difficult for him to make much progress unless the background stuff is sorted. He has an expensive, but, poor squad available to him on high wages, so difficult to shift players on. EtH should have been let go after the FA cup final, he was absolutely blessed to win the FA cup and would have been the right time to go, to give the new manager a blank slate to start the season with, as it is Amorim is now left picking up the pieces and struggling to hit the ground running. If Amorim fails it'll be more on the club than on him as they have made it extremely difficult for him or any manager to succeed.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000621#Comment_123000621

Success and failure are contextual terms.

You say if Amorim fails it won't be his fault, but what if he does worse than Ten Hag did? Is that not his failure?

As a baseline, lets consider that all the other managers failed. Ten Hags lowest league finish was 8th, Solskjaers was 6th. Mourinho 6th and Van Gaal 5th.

The club was a basket case for them, and in fact an even worse basket case for some of them, but they got to 8th at the very worst.

So is it not fair to say that should Amorim perform worse than all of them, that might just have something to do with his performance rather than just blaming everything on the club?

fatherted1969

It's that bad at the moment I'd nearly accept 4th from bottom if the sh1tshow behind the scenes was somewhat addressed over the coming months. It's absolutely mind boggling how little effort is in this squad. The lack of professionalism from these players needs to be addressed while trying to get a tune out of them for remainder of the season

BenK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000682#Comment_123000682

Who would you have appointed for the job? It seems like you have serious doubts about Amorim as the manager.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000682#Comment_123000682

No, it's not fair and in fact insulting to think Amorim is anyway of fault here.

What we seeing now is years of dreadful transfers where ETH has had the worse transfer policy the club has ever seen.

Years and years of dreadful ownership who are now and forever a cancer to our club.

There is no quick fix to this problem, no manager in shining armour to come and rescue to the club. The rot at our club has been seeping into its roots for decades.

The perfect solution would be the Glazer parasites to **** off but this isnt happening so INEOS are now in charge of the football side and this isnt a quick fix for them, it's going to take along time for our club to get back to challenging.

Amorim should be only be judged after 2-3 summer transfer windows where he'll have an uphill task for getting rid of wasters like Antony and bringing in his own players

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000707#Comment_123000707

I have no problem with appointing Amorim, I like some things he has done already. I have never said he is a failure or will be a failure.

My issue is only with the people who aren't judging him on his merits, who aren't judging on performance, but who have decided he will be a success and will handwave away all poor performance as not his fault.

I have seen far too many Ten Hags and Villas Boas's to do that. Amorim is very much an unproven manager, and while we all know the club is a mess, that doesn't mean he might not also be a bad fit for United. Both things can be true at the same time. It will be really, really damaging if the club just allow him free reign regardless of performance and find out in 2 years that actually he just isn't all that good a manager.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000733#Comment_123000733

So Amorim can perform worse than all the other managers and it won't be his fault.

He can finish 10th/14th/16th and it would be insulting to even dare suggest that he had any part in it, that he could have done any better at all.

Fair enough.

Headshot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000748#Comment_123000748

Of course it wont be his fault. Is it his fault we have a terrible goal keeper (transferred under ETH tenure) letting goals in at corners?

Amorim gets a complete free pass from me this season, id be happy with a mid table finish because I look at this team and don't expect anything better.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000765#Comment_123000765

That is your right to do so, I'm not going to change your mind.

But they aren't a 10th/14th/16th place side, not when the manager who was supposedly a complete spoofer (Ten Hag) had them in 8th and won trophies. There is a baseline and a comparison there and it should be used.

Even as a basket-case squad they can be better than that, we know because we have seen it.

Iseedeadpixels

Go back over the goals we've conceded, vast majority are awful mistakes, cut these out and we aren't dropping points.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000788#Comment_123000788

Mistakes have a direct correlation with coaching. Why are we seeing more blatant individual mistakes now than previously?

If the mistakes stop happening and the results start coming then what I will say is that Amorim and the team are now performing better, and give him praise for that.

What will you say if they don't?

Ashbourne hoop

I can see Utd falling into the relegation battle soon enough. And the players have neither the ability and/or the fight to get out of it. I've said it before but there's too many players who are nowhere near the level required to be at Utd, the keeper being the worst. He's absolutely shocking, a massive downgrade on DeGea. He needs to be replaced asap.

GolfPar

What team are we expecting to see tonight? No midweek match this week so might be less onus on rotating? DeLigt to come back in for Yoro? Casemiro & Mainoo in midfield? Amad and Garnacho as the 10's?

He doesn't have a whole lot of choice tonight with injuries, suspensions and non tries frozen out. Will need plenty of legs to compete with Newcastle.

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000520#Comment_123000520

Eventually the club will have a decision to make whether to give Amorim 200 million to try get us back into the top 4 or give him 10 million to walk away and appoint Southgate who would be happy enough to work with what we've already got.

Iseedeadpixels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000814#Comment_123000814

I'm sorry but no the mistakes aren't coming from any form of coaching, I actually can't believe the blame is now being put on Amorim!

FourFourRED

Rashford reportedly back in the squad tonight, due to low numbers with Ugarte & Bruno suspended. If I was to guess, he’ll probably just be an unused sub but who knows.

Newcastle are favourites and rightfully so given their recent form. I’m going into this with zero expectations unfortunately.

Whatsisname

I thought Amorims appointment would have ended the silly Southgate rumours but apparently not.

Mitch Connor

I think Amorim has been hampered by individua mistakes, and a lack of quality or profile in certain positions, but I think he shoul also be questioned on some of the stuff he has chosen to do. Maybe they are just mistakes (with hindsight), maybe they are forced on him to a degree.

I think we have gone too far and long with the rotation aspect - In the first month it made sense, at this point he should have been approaching a settled side, imo.

I think it has been a mistake moving amad away from RWB - but in mitigation that could be because of (1) Rashford and (2) (to a lesser extent) Garnacho. Amad is the only attacking player he has really tried at WB and when he isn't there, we are playing two fullbacks which means we only have 3 'attacking' players in the team.

Bruno then becomes a further problem with that WB issue, because he keeps dropping deep - when he drops deep we then only have 2 players in the attacking 3rd as a threat.

I think it has been a mistake to move away from Ugarte and Casemiro as a midfield pair - I think i understand the profile reason, and long term I would want it to be Mainoo and Ugarte, but I think as we tried to bed in we should have tried to stabalise the midfield and create a baseline for the team. Again though to point at the 'forced errors', another reason he may have decided against that is because if you play both Ugarte and Casemiro there is no one to come in for them as a sub or rotation.

I also have to question wtf is going on with set pieces, and our lack of reaction to the problem.

Some will point at Onana and say its him, but I just can't see it. the goal vs Wolves, yes. But in general? We suck at defending AND attacking and you can't pin the attacking issues on Onana. If you have 3 players sitting on the keeper and blocking them and no defenders then you have to look at the defensive set up as a starting point - should Onana call for help? Yes. Does that mean the scheme elsewhere is compromised? Yes. Is the scheme working in the first place? Nope. If both your keepers are an issue and you accept that as a core problem - then you stilll need to do something about it. DDG was as bad if not worse on set pieces and we were never THIS bad at defending them so consistently. IMO we have seen nothing different defensively and are getting caught by the same issues time and time again.

given the issue and our squad, i would be starting my 11 with Maguire, MDL and Casemiro in the team - and then working the rest of the team from there. Get our 3 biggest aerial assets into the team, and at least have THAT going for us. At it is we are generally starting only one of MDL or Maguire, and Casemiro hasn't started a 'big' game in a while I think?

And we can't wait til Amorim has a perffect 11 to se solutions to these issues - because we are probably 2.5 years away from that at best.

Zeek12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000765#Comment_123000765

Other managers have inherited a sh*tshow in the past. ETH taking over from Rangnick, we were not in a good place at all.

So I can't fully go along with this theory that the rest of this season is some kind of free pass or an experimentation period for RA. Or that he shouldn't be at least partly accountable for our results.

Our current form is basically relegation standard, especially in our defending. Almost definitely two further defeats are coming our way during the next week. We can only hope they are not hugely embarrassing results. Thats got to be a concern.

Teams like Wolves and Palace are finding some form and starting to pick up a lot of points. They could soon overtake us.

The coach has got to start putting some league wins on the board soon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000834#Comment_123000834

Why would the only choice be Southgate?

Tbh they should have gotten Ireola this time. He plays the exact tactics United were looking to improve and has far inferior players doing it very well.

Amorim is there now and should be given a chance but within reason. If it's not showing signs of working a year or two down the line and nothing is improving (I doubt this will be the case) then he should be replaced.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000818#Comment_123000818

United would actually be closer to a relegation battle at the moment with De Gea in goals over Onana. Probably would have finished bottom half last season too.

Ashbourne hoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000948#Comment_123000948

That's an opinion and I don't agree with it all. DeGea needed to be replaced but Onana is not an upgrade in any way.

Mitch Connor

IMO the club decision on Amorim NEEDS to be a long term call.

Amorim should have been picked as being the best available choice for how United want to progress under the current football operation.

343 is not a revolutionary formation. Amorim may have his own tweaks to it, but Alonso has a simillar formation (3atb anyway). Inzaghi. Hoeness - arguably the 3 big up and comers along with Amorim. all with 3atb.

So it shoulld simply be a case of the signings we make from here on out improve our 343 profile balance - and if Amorim is sacked he gets replaced by someone who has a similar ethos. Doesn't have to be the exact same, but someone whose squad and style usage will marry well with the squad we have at that point and the plans we have moving forward.

A big issue United have had is Moyes —> LVG —> Jose —> Ole were completely different football philosphies each time. Ole to EtH not as jarring, imo. In top of that, and because of that, there was no long term strategy to signings. too beholden to the whims and opinions of the manager or joel glazer. Hopefully that is not the case anymore - but we absolutely don't jnow on that score yet.

The worry I had with amorim was that while i like him as a coach, it may simply be too soon for him. IMO we need a LWB, CM and AM (and then move Amad to RWB) to help Amorim right now, but I've no clue if there is any money to do it - the behaviour of the club would indicate there is not. And if we have to go with the squad as we have it right now - Amorim is going to need to pull a LOT more out of this team than he is right now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000961#Comment_123000961

If you think that you obviously haven't watched a single game since De Gea left. Sure take out the fact he's saved more shots than anyone in the league in that time and literally just look at him controlling the ball when it's played back to him. Is that not an upgrade on De Gea?

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000832#Comment_123000832

Onana, MDL, Maguire, Martinez, Dalot, Mazraoui, Casemiro, Mainoo, Amad, Garnacho, Hojlund

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000835#Comment_123000835

That is just wilfull blindness. Did you ever hear the saying "The more I practise the luckier I get"? You know there is an inverse to it?

Ten Hag had most of his defence missing for most of his tenure and the defense still wasn't as bad as this, there has to be a reason and no way is it as simple as "everybody decided to start **** up all at the same time".

I mean, the most obvious reason is that he changed the formation and the players are struggling to adapt to it, which in turn leads to mistakes. Nothing wrong with just saying that.

But if it is as simple as the new formation then a good coach will fix that pretty quickly, no?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000961#Comment_123000961

Onana is better than De Gea.

But he also isn't reliable enough to be the best option long term. A good keeper that regularly **** up is not a great keeper. So while he will do for now, it is an area that can be improved.

Ask Liverpool fans about Karius and what they think about a good keeper that has many clangers in him.

Zeek12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123000986#Comment_123000986

This sounds like what he'll go with. Even though Garnacho has been awful in recent months.

Any possibility that Eriksen might be picked in a No.10 role instead?