2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

rosenallis · 18-09-2024 11:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122626146#Comment_122626146

Thanks for the info. Maybe Runna was a sunk cost fallacy before engaging with this thread! But i'm this far now :-) This week the plan is speed Wed, Interval Thursday and small slow Friday before 28K sunday. I'll swap tonights speed for a slow run

I'll give carb based Bloxx and sweets a go and hopefully this will sit better with me on a 28k run. Appreciate the advice.

brick tamland · 18-09-2024 11:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629050#Comment_122629050

Im no expert but a Speed session followed by Intervals the next day doesn't seem right to me, especially for a 1st marathon

Id always split them with and easy/recovery run if it was me

rosenallis · 18-09-2024 12:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629230#Comment_122629230

Sorry, I confused matters- you are correct. speed was planned for Tuesday (which I had to skip for recovery, so it was moved to tonight), Thursday intervals, Friday slow. I won't run Speed tonight, i'll do a slow jog.

MisterJinx · 18-09-2024 01:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629297#Comment_122629297

Goodcall, never do b2b hard sessions, it's a recipe for injury

Sunny Dayz · 20-09-2024 01:23PM

a reminder here for anyone doing the half marathon on Sunday and even anyone doing their long run at the weekend to make sure you are hydrating well. Plenty of water and if you have a hydration tablet like Hi5, kinetica or Nuun - pop one in your drinks bottle today and tomorrow. A homemade version would be a bit of table salt with a dash of miwadi. I have taken dioralyte sachets before but I think really they are for treating dehydration, not preventing it.
Otherwise - rest up the legs, try to get to bed early the next couple of nights. Make sure you’ve you food sorted for Sat and Sun - pre and post race.

mossiepark · 21-09-2024 07:57PM

Best of luck to all doing the Dublin half marathon tomorrow.

Lazare · 21-09-2024 09:18PM

Race well tomorrow folks

Sunny Dayz · 21-09-2024 09:20PM

best of luck to those running the half marathon in the morning. Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

gabbo is coming · 22-09-2024 02:32PM

Did the half. Sore hip made the last 7 tough. Hard to see a way to 42 even though I've done 24,27,24 in the recent past

mossiepark · 22-09-2024 04:53PM

THE PLAN WORKS!

I really enjoyed the HM today. Having started this journey my PB for a HM (the only one I had ever done 10 years ago) was 1.48. I managed to do a little better in the Clontarf half at the start of the plan with a time of 1.47 after being on track for 1.45 and blowing up near the end.

Today, I "gave it socks" as the plan suggested and came in at 1.39.40!! Hopefully, I can keep up the momentum and avoid injuries

mossiepark · 22-09-2024 06:51PM

Interested to hear people's thoughts on the the training schedule for the next 2 weeks.

I have difficulties with the next 2 weeks and it's unlikely I can do long runs on Saturday or Sundays, unless I do them late in the evening which isn't ideal. Any issues in doing them on the Friday and if so how would you approach the other runs this week coming for example. Thanks as always

@TheRef

@Sunny Dayz

slingerz · 22-09-2024 09:44PM

congrats to all in Dublin today.

I have to say I’ve found the grind of getting out training tough this week. I would have literally done anything else than get those midweek runs in.

can anyone recommend a vest/belt for carrying supplies I am getting sick of my route, it’s the same way each time as it allows me to stash stuff in one place that’s handy intervals for me on my runs. I def think a bit of variety would be nice though and being able to take water, gels, food etc with me would be nice.

lastly, maybe I’m a freak but I get these all over body shivers on my runs. They can start form as early as 2K. Today I got them repeatedly over the 14m I did and towards the end one of them was especially uncomfortable. Just wondering if people experience similar?

Sunny Dayz · 22-09-2024 10:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642864#Comment_122642864

that’s a brilliant pb - congrats - your hard work is paying off!

Sunny Dayz · 22-09-2024 10:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122643474#Comment_122643474

I think you’re follow a Runna plan - what is that giving for the next 2 weeks? Is it Friday morning or during the day you are talking about or Friday evening?

Sunny Dayz · 22-09-2024 10:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122643940#Comment_122643940

I use a flip belt myself, find them very handy and comfy. Those vests with the pouches for drinks bottles and gels seem popular but I wonder would they be very warm?

In terms of you getting body shivers - are you hydrating enough? Drinking enough water all week, using hydration tablets, hydrating on your run? What do you wear on your runs - could you be overheating?

Sunny Dayz · 22-09-2024 10:44PM

And just like that we are three quarters of the way through the plans already. It’s the Autumn Equinox today so we are now officially in Autumn. Temperatures are going to start dropping and I'm really noticing a shortening of daylight in the past week.

A huge well done to all those who raced in the Dublin Half Marathon today. Running a Half Marathon is a great achievement in itself - it's something you should all feel very proud of – especially if it’s your first half marathon race. The strava runs look good but I’d love hear how it went for you. Take the time in the next day or so to reflect on your race. What worked for you? What didn’t work for you? How did you find your pacing? Has it helped you get a handle on your race fueling and hydration? Your race outfit? Your pre and post race routine? If the race didn’t go as planned – please don’t panic – it was one day. See if there’s a lesson to be learned from it and continue to stick to the plan. On the other hand if you had a great race result – be satisfied with it but don’t let yourself think that’s the work done, that you’re sorted for the marathon. We still have 5 weeks to go, still a bit of work to do yet. That should be the last race really now before the marathon – if you are taking part in a three quarter marathon in the coming weeks – it's not a race!! As they regularly say around these parts: “keep the main thing, the main thing”

To get through the next 5 weeks, the pace needs to be slow slow. No time for heroics or trying to push up the pace. Legs are getting tired now, going slowly will help you better recover and reduce the risk of injury.

The plans for week 14 ahead are as follows:

Keep the easy runs easy and the long slow runs slow.

Most of you now have a race completed under your marathon training plan. Take this week to reflect on your pacing and see where you are with that. See what you feel may be a realistic target for DCM based on how your training has gone so far. It doesn’t have to be set in stone, nobody will hold you to it and nobody will pass any remarks if you find yourself revising your pace compared to the start of your training. We are going for realistic, not impressive. Please do give the reasoning behind what you've come up with as a target time.

Best of luck with the week ahead! 😊

mossiepark · 23-09-2024 08:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644015#Comment_122644015

Hi @Sunny Dayz, I scrapped the Runna plan some weeks ago in favour of the Boards plan. The frequent speed sessions and constant niggies and injuries with the runna plan were unsustainable for me. Thankfully, the Boards plan is working great. I might have to consider a Friday LSR this week and next though.

comanche_cor · 23-09-2024 08:58AM

Last weeks plan in essence was deload week and taper for the HM. Ended up like this (based on advice here). Had two runs back to back which was not idea, but at least it was an easy run - just the way my week went, unfortunately.

Mon|Tues|Wed|Thurs|Fri|Sat|Sun

I felt that my HM went well.

I was very unsure of myself going into it - given previous weeks I was unsure what race pace to set for myself. In the end, I decided to base a pace off my FD 10m pace and a 4H marathon pace, so 5:12 per km pace for a 1:50 finish on the McMillan calculator. I setup my garmin pace pro with this and decided I would start behind the 1.50 pacers but not get fixated on them but use the pace pro pacing instead.

I did a lot of things differently last week to try and get things back on track for me.

The race itself went well - I felt comfortable throughout and finished strong. I also felt good after it, not as wrecked as pervious training efforts. Felt I could have pushed a little harder if I had the confidence

What worked for you?

I did a lot of things differently last week.

got a massage from the physio
legs up on wall yoga
epson salt baths
change food a little - plenty of pasta & rice, added in extra snacks during the week - bagels, jellies
fueling
hydration
garmin pace pro
made sure to push out any negative thoughts during race

So not sure what exactly made a difference for me. Could have been as simple as the taper. Or could have been a combination of all of the above.

One thing that I do think is working really well for me is knowing the course in combination with using pace pro on my watch. Am going to sound like an ad now, but, this gives me the knowledge of where to hold back and where to push. Previously I would have been afraid of losing time on hills, whereas now I am happy to ease off on the hills and pick up a little time on the downs i.e. use the course.

What didn’t work for you?

The cups, OMG the cups, need I say any more!

Parking, I could have given myself an extra 10 mins for that.

Possibly a little over hyrdrated - had 2x hi5 hydration the day before and a bottle the morning of the race. Thought I was going to have to make a stop during the race.

How did you find your pacing?

I need to be careful not to get caught up in the excitement or the rush to get around ppl at the start. I did run faster than my pace plan but was happy after the first few 5k I was feeling strong. If not I would have reigned it in.

However, I am still unsure as to how to pace the marathon. I am not sure what time to aim for. I started the training block with sub 4 being my A goal. However, I am unsure of that. I guess I will get through the next two weeks of long runs and see how they go. Any advice is appreciated :)

Has it helped you get a handle on your race fueling and hydration?

I made sure to be well hydrated (maybe a little too hydrated!). I also decided to change up my fueling a little also. I took a gel on the start line and took one every 6k. This was probably overkill for 2hr effort, but I wasn't taking any risks! :)

Your race outfit?

New shoes are almost broken in. Know what I plan to wear.

Your pre and post race routine?

Keeping it simple with some stretches and light jog. Seems to be working.

On the other hand if you had a great race result – be satisfied with it but don’t let yourself think that’s the work done, that you’re sorted for the marathon.

Yup - this is a great point. Big difference in the HM and the full. Looking forward to my last two long runs and a taper. Doing the longwood 3/4 - I know that I need to be careful and not get caught up in the excitement but run it as an enjoyable easy run, have the chats and enjoy it.

This week coming in my longest week:

Plan|Mon|Tues|Wed|Thurs|Fri|Sat|Sun

ILikeBoats · 23-09-2024 09:25AM

Really enjoyed the Dublin half. Great atmosphere in the park. The medal is lovely!

I came in with a PB and just under goal time so happy with that. I think I might have been able to go a bit harder and knock another minute or two off it. I didn't feel gassed at all, great to see all the training making an impact.

Well done to all who did it

TheRef · 23-09-2024 09:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644542#Comment_122644542

When looking to move days around, always look at the key sessions. This week is the slightly longer recovery at the start of the week to get over yesterdays exersions, and then the LSR. The rest is the easy running to keep the muscle and aerobic development progressing.

My advice on how to approach this week would be:

Today: rest;

Tues: rest or cross or 3m rec

Wed: 8m easy

Thur: 3m rec or cross

Fri: 20m

Sat: 3m rec

Sun: rest or cross (this is the monday session from next week)

and then next week skip Monday and just bring everyhing else in a day.

The idea behind the changes this week are to still get you out on Thursday to keep the legs moving, but the only reason you are going out is to keep things loose and prepare yourself for Friday. If you think you would be better of resting on Thursday, that's fine, but I'd at least encourage to go for a walk. Again, the focus is recovery today and tomorrow. Get things moving again Wed, Thurs is for preparing for Friday - your key sesssion.

If you are going to get back on schedule from the 7th, you can see how you feel closer to the time in terms of what to do the extra day.

Hopefully by now you have a good read of your body and can differentiate between fatigue soreness and any possible injury related pain, so just be mindful and remember - keep the paces easy this week.

TheRef · 23-09-2024 10:03AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122643940#Comment_122643940

I think I'm like you - I hate long midweek runs after work. Always find them much harder than an earlier run.

I'm similar to @Sunny Dayz and use a fitbelt, and I'll be wearing mine on the big day. For training runs over 21k, I wear a hydration vest and find it great. Decathlon apparently do a decent version and there are plenty of options. I went for Salomon Advanced Skin (have both 5L and 12L) which allow me to carry 1.5L water. As @MisterJinx also mentioned, he stops in a shop every and buys a bottle of water as needed. So, I'd firstly be asking how much use will you get out of a vest - will you continue to use it after October?

A great thing about the fitbelts as well is they are great for bringing on holidays as you travel around - especially if you get the zip version. Keep your passports, wallet handy etc.

As for the shivers - I'd be getting that checked out - definitely. It could be low blood pressure, but definitely get it seen to, at least for peace of mind. Its one thing if you are feeling cold, but take no chances.

TheRef · 23-09-2024 10:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644550#Comment_122644550

Some really brilliant feedback in this that everyone can learn from. Its the reason SunnyDayz asks for it - you guys are so close now that you've learnt a huge amount through hard work.

A few things I'd call out:

Firstly, it looks like you really smashed it yesterday so congrats on that. It's now getting very real ;-)

Pacing: Overally, the guide is twice you half marathon time + 30 mins. Some go quicker, some go slower, but that's the number to bear in mind. If I was you, I'd be going for 4 hours. Your just a few mins outside that +30 guide from yesterdays result, you had a strong last 5k, you reckoned you had some more in you. There will be more discussion about specific pacing in a couple of weeks, but that's the number I would have in my mind.

PacePro: I used this last year and after 15 mins changed the screen and ignored it. I got too wound up whether I was ahead or behind and worried whether I could hit the paces it was calling for later on. The first km will also be a lot slower than you hope due to traffic. Instead, I had a paceband so knew the times I would be shooting for at the various points (5k, 10k etc.). That let me focus on my body and how I was feeling more than what my watch was telling me how I should feel. I'm sure it would work well for some people, but just make sure you don't over rely upon it.

Cups: I wasn't there yesterday, but could you pinch the cups to form a spout to control the flow? Its the only way to get in more than you spill :-). At least in the marathon, most are in bottles.

Gels: I think you done the right thing taking them every 6k, not that you needed as many, but you practices taking them while running fast, both the logistics but also getting your body used to digesting them at the same time as being fatigued.

ILikeBoats · 23-09-2024 10:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644846#Comment_122644846

The cups were a hard transparent plastic, couldn't be pinched unfortunately

MisterJinx · 23-09-2024 11:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644846#Comment_122644846

+1 on Pace Pro, I used it on my first and also switched off the screen after the first hour as I was behind the time at that point due to congestion etc etc and it just kept beeping at me telling me I was off target all the time. It became an annoyance and also a bit disheartening, better without it in my opinion. Pace bands it probably a better way to keep the feel of the race without being a slave to the watch and a poor mile / slower than expected start / bit of a wobble in the middle

rosenallis · 23-09-2024 01:20PM

Stupid newbie question - pace bands, are they just printed sheets with times?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122645188#Comment_122645188

MisterJinx · 23-09-2024 02:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122645506#Comment_122645506

Something like this, although I can't find the link now but there are more refined ones which have an exact course

https://www.marathonguide.com/fitnesscalcs/PaceBandCreator.cfm

Basically a wrist band which you have key times written on them for like 5K 10k etc. They are a help as you don't have to do the maths in your head when you start to get tired. Also as you are setting times for quite a distance e.g. 5k then any variances in there are less of a hassle than when the watch is beeping at you tell you your last km was 30sec off the pace you set on it.

I do think pace pro has a place and can be an effective tool but not for your first marathon. IMO it could have you too focused on the watch for the entire race and not on yourself and your surroundings. For your first marathon you are going to pb, it will be an amazing time no matter what it is, the focus really should be on getting around it and enjoying the day.

Lockster · 23-09-2024 02:50PM

Was happy with how it went yesterday. Wasn't aiming for a super fast time, but wanted a sub 2 hour and to negative split, which is something I've never been able to do before in over 10 half marathons before. Official time was 1:57 and was able to negative split, so mission accomplished.

Agree about the cups, what a nightmare, trying the the pinch method just meant either spilling most of the water or breaking the cup. All the empties most also have been a trip hazard. Good job I was well hydrated before hand and it wasn't too hot.

I really think that they are probably at the maximum capacity for that route as the bits on the narrow path are just so congested. I'd really hate to be chasing a PB on that course.

Very happy with my fueling and kit choices so all sorted for the big day. I just don't know whether to put the shoes in storage now until marathon or carry on doing the remaining long runs in them.