2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

Sunny Dayz · 11-09-2024 01:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604220#Comment_122604220

if you feel 4:30+ is your pace, it really wouldn’t make sense to start with the 4:10 pacers. You want to be starting your marathon at a slower pace, not trying to “bank time” in the early stages. You put yourself at a very real risk of blowing up in the latter miles on the marathon.

Sunny Dayz · 11-09-2024 01:09PM

From the Dublin marathon website about pacers:

Yes, we’ll have pacers running on the day. They will run at a steady effort throughout and aim to finish a few seconds under each time band. To be paced by them during the race, just turn up at the start, look for the runners wearing large balloons, and stand behind the corresponding time. Pacers will be allocated to each wave: Wave 1- 3:00, 3:10, 3:20. Wave 2 – 3:30, 3:40, 3:50. Wave 3 – 4:00, 4:10, 4:20. Wave 4 – 4:30, 4:40, 4:50 & 5:00.

Sunny Dayz · 11-09-2024 01:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605007#Comment_122605007

running with pacers can be a personal preference. I found in Dublin that there’s a big crowd around the person with the big pacing balloon. I tried running with a pacer in a different race before and found it quite crowded and had to watch my footing. So I ran in front of the pacing pack.

Last year in Dublin I was hoping for 4:30 but I started in front of the 4:40 pacers so I didn’t go out too fast. Now I’m not sure if it was the right strategy but it did mean I didn’t go out too fast.

in favour of the pacers you have company on the run, especially if you are on your own - it’s not known as the friendly marathon for nothing - people will chat to you and it’s a nice way to pass away a mile. Also the pacers in Dublin are experienced and very supportive.

Trampas · 11-09-2024 01:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605007#Comment_122605007

Use pacers as a guide be my advice. You’ve got to run your race and not someone else. You could be running up hill and they’re doing the avg pace to get around in your time. You might feel it’s to hard so you should drop back than burying yourself to keep up. More than likely if you’re pushing to hard to keep up you’ll be waving them goodbye at 20 miles as that pushing comes back to haunt you. As said above if you lose a min or two over first 7 miles on target pace doesn’t mean not going to hit it. Anything you’re going well as a lot of that is up hill and you’re keeping everything in control.

crisco10 · 11-09-2024 02:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122605101#Comment_122605101

Agree with this. In my 1st DCM, my goal was to finish ahead of 3:30 pacers. Que panic when they were drifting away from me in 1st KM, I just couldnt keep up without expending lots of effort. I eventually relaxed and let them do their thing, and eased passed them later on in race to finish in 3:24.

So yeah, pacers are a guide, not someone to follow stride for stride for 26.1 miles.

rosenallis · 11-09-2024 02:28PM

Thanks for the advice - i think i'll veer towards running on my own as i'll be constantly looking at that baloon beside me! I'll jump ahead of the pacer behind the one i'm aiming for and hopefully pass them at some point along the route.

slingerz · 13-09-2024 10:52PM

wave 4 for me. Pacers won’t be an issue for me they’ll be too fast. Will have to try figure out how to pace myself so I don’t go too fast for me.

Medieval 1/2 in Kilkenny tomorrow, wish me luck going to approach it just like a LSR but going to try to run it all and see how I get on. If I can’t then I’ll stick to walking the inclines from here on out

mossiepark · 14-09-2024 11:30AM

Wave 2 for me and I still haven't decided whether to run with the pacers or not. I think it's helpful to have some support around you and people to encourage you along but also happy to run on my own and at my own pace too. I've been a little quite on here the last 2 weeks because of work, kids back to school, etc but I feel the training is going reasonably OK. I miss the odd run but all in all since I scrapped the runna plan and focused on the boards plan I've felt great.

I'm Hoping to get a long run in tomorrow morning and then focus on the HM next weekend. Hard to believe we are only 6 weeks away

Sunny Dayz · 14-09-2024 08:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122613821#Comment_122613821

best of luck in Kilkenny!

Sunny Dayz · 14-09-2024 09:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122614619#Comment_122614619

that’s a sensible approach to pacing.

Well done for keeping relatively on plan - it can get difficult when everything starts back in Sept.

slingerz · 15-09-2024 07:52PM

did the Kilkenny 1/2 yesterday and ended up with a 19 min PB. Unfortunately was sent wrong towards the end and ended up doing 24.4K!

Fell in with a VI runner and his guide for the first 10K and they were great company chatting away. I have to say I was looking for the finish line as they pulled away with 6K to go. Kinda gutted to not have made it to the line as intended and I was feeling it at the time having gone out as strong as I could and without walking the inclines.

Was physically ill after the race from taking in water. Felt I didn’t get enough in from the water stations and I took water at each of them. Probably need to get a vest or something

Sunny Dayz · 15-09-2024 09:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122619052#Comment_122619052

what?? You did an extra 3km?! Crap!! what happened - were ye sent the wrong way?

in terms of not feeling well after- did you try hydrate well in the days leading up to the race? Was it just water or did you have any electrolytes during the race? Did you carry a water bottle or knock back water at the water stations?

ps - well done on your half pb - 19 mins is a big improvement.

Sunny Dayz · 15-09-2024 09:36PM

Did you complete all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
Did you complete all the runs at an appropriate pace?
Very best of luck with the week ahead and the race if you are doing it

SimpleDimple · 16-09-2024 08:39AM

I got all my runs in the past week at the intended pace. Did my lsr yesterday so I am a bit tired today - I had a family thing the night before and even though I only nursed 2 glasses of wine my performance was definitely impacted.

My Achilles issue still remains but it’s gradually getting better, I just need to roll / rub it out every day, it’s been less of a problem after the long runs this week.
I’m not doing the half marathon but will probably do 12 miles the coming weekend as I’ll be travelling a bit and won’t have time for the full 18lsr.

Best of luck to everyone competing in them!

comanche_cor · 16-09-2024 11:01AM

Last weeks plan:

Plan|Mon|Tues|Wed|Thur|Fri||Sat|Sun

Got all the runs done
Only one S&C
Missed Mobility.

I prepared for the long run a lot better this week. I brought water and took gels at 7k,15k, and 21k. I started ran at what I would consider an easy pace - in my zone 2 (however HR was a little high at start, guessing was a little tired). However, come 26K I could feel the legs getting tired and struggled with the last 2k with very heavy legs.

At this stage sub 4hrs feels like it's going out the window as could sub 4.30. I really felt like I could not continue any further than the 31k - I will still 1k from home and walked the last k. What I find odd is that I am not challenged aerobically, but the legs just give up.

This week is a de-load week. I have the half marathon this weekend. I am not sure if I should race it to get some confidence back or take it easy and get some recovery.

The plan for this week is giving me:

Plan|Mon|Tues|Wed|Thur|Fri||Sat|Sun

I will combine sat & sun to run the Dublin HM.

ILikeBoats · 16-09-2024 01:30PM

Like you comanche, I had 35k to do yesterday. Around 28 the legs were blitzed, the last 7 were a serious struggle. Based on the average pace from yesterday, I'll be over my goal by a few mins but not much. However, I know it will stand to me and the few more long runs I have to do should prepare me even more so will hopefully will get in under the 4.15!! That was the longest on the plan and happy it's out of the way.

Looking forward to the half marathon on Sunday and hopefully a PB

Sunny Dayz · 16-09-2024 01:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620801#Comment_122620801

well done on your week and especially on your long run. It’s normal for the legs to feel tired in the last few miles - this is where we train them to keep going even though they are tired and heavy - which is what you did! Just checking my maths - you took 3 gels - would perhaps a 4th around 27/28km have perked you up a bit?
Factor in some rest and recovery this week - last session Thurs and rest Fri and Sat.

SimpleDimple · 16-09-2024 02:50PM

Slightly silly question but does anyone else feel like pop-eye when you’re squeezing the gel into your mouth and getting the energy kick

TheRef · 16-09-2024 04:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620801#Comment_122620801

Its quite natural at this moment in training to start questioning things, and I said in an earlier post that for me, September is always the hardest month. You have been putting your body under tremendous stress for months now and the cumulative fatigue is making all runs more difficult. Plenty of rest, good food, and hydration will help you recover.

It does seem though that the Runna plan is a lot more demanding that most other plans with two speed sessions and a long run each week. We mentioned a while back that if you are feeling that you are struggling in your long runs, it might make sense to replace one of the speed sessions with an easy run.

The other things I strongly strongly suggest is to slow down on your long runs. If you are trying to target a sub 4-hour, your long runs should be close to 6:20min/km pace for each km, keeping it even throughout the run. When you run too fast, your body can't recover before you start again, and the adaptions your legs need won't happen. Those changes are what gives you the strength and ability to run longer

But look, the main takeaway is that you managed to run 31k and by any measure, that is incredible. There is still plenty of time to strengthen and improve so don't over think yesterday.

As for this weekend - my suggestion would be to race it if you felt you are up for it. It will give you an excellent idea of where your training is at and you can use the result to start dialling in your race pace for the marathon. And think of it - it's only 21k 😆

TheRef · 16-09-2024 05:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122621392#Comment_122621392

35k? Those Runna folks really do put people through the ringer. If you're targetting 4:15, I'm guessing you were running for about 4 hours yesterday? The consensus is that anything over 3 hours on your feet is not worth it as the risk of injury outweighs the benefits (some even say 2 hours, but that's for faster folk).

You also said that you got injured going for Rotterdam last year and you are currently running 3 days a week with other days on other activities.

The previous injury, very very long run on 3 days a week plan, all would make me hyper cautious. I'd seriously think twice about going over 32k again in training and focus on doing everything you can to get to that start line fit and healthy.

witnessmenow · 16-09-2024 05:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122620801#Comment_122620801

From my relatively inexperienced point of view, if you Race the HM as your planning, that would be tough week with 2 speed type sessions followed by a HM race. I'd maybe consider swapping Thursdays run for something easier

slingerz · 16-09-2024 10:10PM

I have to say I hydrated as well as I normally do. I carried the little bottles with me at each station but I just felt like I needed more. Drank the bottle at the finish and didn’t feel the better for it.

as for the extra distance yes got sent the wrong way along with some others, some of which were in the 30k to make it worse.

have never used the hydration tabs or anything like that. Tbh I have no knowledge or understanding of them. They most likely would be helpful to me along with a carbohydrate drink as I’m out there a long time

Lockster · 16-09-2024 10:30PM

I’ve not posted for a while amazing how time flies when you’re marathon training. I’ve just started week 14 of a Runna plan and it’s going ok so far. I had to take a full week off around week 10 due to catching Covid but it actually seemed to do me good. The plan was tough at first but it has recalculated the paces a couple of times and I was able to hit all the paces last week and complete a 32k long run at the weekend.

This week is a deload week and so it fits in well with the half on Sunday. I plan to try and race it to see where I’m at, but I’m also conscious that I’ve a big week the following week with the longest run of the plan at the weekend.

I’ve managed to stay relatively injury free so far except for a few issues with toes and toe nails but I went to a chiropodist last week and she gave me some good hints.

Hopefully see some of you at the half on Sunday.

Mantis Toboggan · 16-09-2024 10:30PM

My knee flared up again last week just when I thought I was on the road to recovery, even walking the last 2km of my run was very painful. Luckily had physio booked for the following morning.

If I was training for anything else I'd have long packed it in but as we get closer I'm just trying to keep going.

Attempted the long run on Sunday morning, felt okay until 16K when the pain came on fast, was near the house so said I'd leave it at that but as I got to the house the pain bizarrely subsided and I was able to run another 4 km.

My long runs are almost always early in the morning and I don't eat or drink anything beforehand. I do bring a small bit of water with me and some gels, and I generally always feel fine, is that unusual?

ILikeBoats · 17-09-2024 09:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122622377#Comment_122622377

Took 3.36 for the 35k. Runna seem to be quite heavy alright, think my wife had previously done a half marathon plan and it was telling her to do 22k runs in training which was odd.

Knee is holding up ok thankfully. And I didn't dispute the distance because I genuinely wanted to see could I do it, I suppose on reflection it was opening myself up to injury. There's only one more 30k run and then it's the wind down so I might knock a few kms off that as I feel like I'll be able to finish the marathon now based on Sunday.

Never heard that about >3hrs on the feet.

Thanks for the advice

nullObjects · 17-09-2024 10:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122623803#Comment_122623803

Was wondering about the last question myself, I normally go straight out the door for my long run but on Marathon day it'll be that bit later starting so will probably have to eat something before it.
Might try mimc that for the next long run and see how I get on.

TheRef · 17-09-2024 10:43AM

On whether to have breakfast or not before long runs in training, always look to what you will be doing on the day itself - that goes for breakfast as well as in-run gels/fuel and water.

When you get to the start line, you want your glycogen stores to be maxed out, so you definitely want to eat breakfast, unless you have specific concerns (e.g. GI issues). Never try anything new on marathon day, so definitely be having breakfast before your long runs, just to get your body used to starting with food in your belly as well as taking gels or other fuel along the way.

Generally speaking, you should have enough fuel to run somewhere up to 2 hours, but it depends on the person and the effort. Think of it this way - you probably wouldn't go out the door with a half charged phone or earbuds, so why go out with a half charged body.

Just one final point - if you finish a long run and think you feel fine, just remember that you aren't. Hydrate and eat within 30 mins - the quicker you can start the the recovery, the better prepared you will be for your next run.

Trampas · 17-09-2024 10:56AM

Definitely start eating breakfast on your long runs. Wouldn’t want to start on the day of it.

What’s a small amount of water? Even if you’re not sweating you are still dehydrating over time.

I’d don’t think anything before most runs bar when I’m doing my long runs on marathon training but that’s from years of training. Never heard of the 3 hours myself and I’d wouldn’t listen to it personally. Someone who’s training for a 4.5-5 hour marathon might be who’s training at 7:30 min kms wouldn’t get more than 26km in their long run. Mentally they might fine they’ve still another 10 miles extra to do on the day very hard than just 6.

rosenallis · 17-09-2024 12:35PM

Hi everyone,

Struggling big time with Gels at the moment. Ran half marathon this week in Runna plan and took two gels & 500ml Tailwind drink. Found it very difficult to see how i could have more gels than that over a marathon distance and these ones (hi5 aqua) are the best i've practiced with withouth significant gi isses.

I've been looking into Cliff Blox and Percy pigs. 3 bloxx is the same as 1 gel with carbs. Is it achievable/ wise to sub gels completly for sweets/ blox?

Distances are going fine at this point. I think my goal pace is overly ambitios i'm realising. A sub 4 was my initial goal but apart from some 5M I haven't been able to meet/ maintain that at a longer distance.

This week i've an 18M on the Runna plan on Sunday with some speed sessions mid-week

The support and help here is great among everyone. Nearly there!

TheRef · 17-09-2024 04:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625177#Comment_122625177

The problem in giving advice is that we don't know much about the Runna plans. I think an inquest needs to be done to figure out why they are so popular in this years group :-)

On fueling - you can eat whatever you like, as long as it is carb based and easy for you to digest. The only reason gels are so popular is they are easy to carry, consume, and for most, don't cause GI distress. Maurten gels seem to be popular around her for those having difficulties with the other gels. Problem is the price though. Clif Bloks and Percy Pigs would work if you don't eating jellies while running.

Definitely give it a go and see how you get on. If it was me, I'd probably take a couple of the shorter runs just to get used to eating them and see if there is a reaction, because there is less than 6 weeks to go (yikes).

Also, have a look here for some good info on fueling for a marathon.

Back to Runna and the paces they set - I don't know anything about the plans so take everything with a pinch of salt. Your half marathon was running at, or close enough to, planned marathon pace, which is a huge ask in the middle of training, particularly when running your first. I'd be more focusing on making sure you are getting the distances in, and really slowing down, but again, that's me saying that with no knowledge of how Runna is structured. I'll be doing 30k myself this weekend with 20k at marathon pace, and that will be a challenge. There is no way I'd be able to run much more than that on Sunday at that pace, but I know when we get to the end of next month, it will all come together. The taper is a wonderful thing, so trust the plan and stick with it. If you're struggling, cut out one of the speed sessions and replace with an easy run. Slow down on the paces it is suggesting for the long runs as well but get the distances in. Just don't doubt yourself. Your nearly there.

2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

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