2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

Mantis Toboggan

Coming off a good week last week, probably my best week so far. Starting to feel fit, knee is best it's been for a while and I feel I can start picking up the pace a little bit.

Strangely looking forward to my lsr. My last long run of similar distance I didn't prepare property and totally hit the wall. So hoping I can rectify that if I can get the fueling right.

It is daunting though and I am terrified of injury as we're so close now, hopefully get through that and I should be ok. Can't wait for the taper, I've been looking forward to it for about 6 weeks now. Busy couple of weeks at work also so will have to just put the head down and get on with it.

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122669791#Comment_122669791

There is a line of thought that any training runs over 3 hours is too long.

As a slower runner, I haven't subscribed to this thinking. To be honest I'm not brave enough to! Getting the mileage done feels "safer" in a preparation point of view. A 3 hour LSR for me last year would only have been 25k ish

I know there are a few others on boards who I'm connected to on Strava who also have had 3+ hour runs so I'm not the only one!

Last year after my 20 mile run I was talking to someone in work who is a really strong runner (might win a few of the local races kind of strong) and I told him I did my 20 mile run and it took 4 + hours, he replied "oh wow, I've never ran for that long before ever". (It might read as an insult , but the way he said it was more of a "fair play"). But it really highlighted to me that doing 20 miles as a slow runner is a completely different ball game to a faster one.

But, I had a bad day at the office in Dublin last year, maybe I left a bit too much out on the training runs so there could be method to it!

I still can't bring myself to make that leap of faith of cutting it off at 3 hours. I did one last week and I'm a bit quicker this year so it was "only" 3:30. It's still a very long time though!

5 hours plus is a lot, maybe it is worth having a read up about the thought process behind having a max time limit on runs and have a think about it.

I have a friend who just ran their first marathon in Berlin at the weekend, but his training plan never had him go over 26/27k, and he probably wouldn't be hitting the 3 hour limit if he went to 32k. He finished in 3:55. I'd kill for that time 😅

Mantis Toboggan

@witnessmenow on last year, what do you think went wrong on the day? Is there anything you're doing differently this year?

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122670703#Comment_122670703

How do you feel on your recovery run the next day? Have you missed any of the scheduled weekday runs following the long runs?

I totally get the mindset regarding doing the milage, I would have had the same in 2019 for my first marathon.

witnessmenow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672430#Comment_122672430

I think fuel was the most likely candidate. I definitely hit the wall, which I had never experienced before and I didn't know how to handle it and gave up too early on any strategy I tried to sort it out. I had practised with gels, but I think my day just started so much earlier than it typically would when I ran as I travelled up on the morning, and wave 4 starts late. I've changed my fuelling strategy (using gels, carb drink and cola bottles, rather than just gels). I'm also staying in Dublin the night before so, my day should start a lot later.

My in-race management was poor too, my inexperience definitely went against me. I paced the first half exactly as I had planned, just over 10 minutes slower than my HM time, so a reasonable time to aim for, but it wasn't feeling as easy as it should. I should have slowed the pace on the day til it did feel right, but I wasn't confident enough to make that decision and decided to blindly trust my original plan. I've done a good few more races since so hopefully I have a bit more experience now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672487#Comment_122672487

My plan this year (a hybrid between boards graduate beginners for midweek runs and HH intermediate 1 for weekends) has a rest day the day after LSR. I haven't missed any runs from feeling bad or anything. Was instructed by the physio to rest for a couple of days a few weeks ago and re-arranged some runs based on being sick, but don't have any issues recovering after long runs. I did 33K last Monday and felt fine again for the 10k on Wednesday.

T-Bird

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672926#Comment_122672926

I think your training and races seem a lot stronger this year as opposed to last year.

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672926#Comment_122672926

If your feeling fine then keep on doing it, the plan is working for you. The 3 hour limit has always been about diminishing returns(some people will even say 2.45) but we are all different and your style might work perfect for a 3.30 or 4 hour long run.

Sunny Dayz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122658816#Comment_122658816

I've just listened to this today. Thanks for recommending. A good podcast to have a listen to in the next week or two. If anyone else wants to recommend any podcast episodes to listen to - feel free.

I recommend a listen to this one by The Runners Diary podcast.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6axujdq3UVhVBSa01pG9kx?si=6959f020af7f4901

Any of their episodes from Oct last year (2023) cover different aspects of DCM.

Mantis Toboggan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674019#Comment_122674019

I heard this thread got a good mention on the runner's diary podcast 2022 edition!

Sunny Dayz

It's good to read the good reports form the last week, sorry for not replying to each one individually. It's helpful to get a sense of how people are feeling so if you haven't posted an update here in a while please feel free to. Many familiar and similar feelings. Thanks to those who are providing a sounding boards and little nuggets - the running community is really so supportive and that will be so evident in the coming weeks and on race day. Those feeling tired, demotivated - it's normal - the training is taking it's toll, days are getting shorter - thankfully it's almost taper time.

Those seeing what looks to be a lot of mileage for this week - it's why we've been banging on about running EASY. The long run is doable if you run easy. Yes your legs will be tired but the running easy teaches you to keep going on those tired legs, much like what you'll be doing after mile 20 in the marathon.

On the 3 hour LSR debate which I think is an interesting one:

I thinks that's all well and good if you're a sub 4 hour marathoner. For me who's 4:30+ - I personally would feel unprepared going in with 1:5 hours "untrainined". I've found with my marathon training last year and this year - it started to get tougher after 3 hours on my LSR, so the last half or 3 quarter hour of my long run was where I had to practice digging deep.

Anyone doing 3/4 marathon this coming weekend - run it at your LSR pace, and, if you like, pick up to MP for last 2/3 miles.

Finally - welcome to marathon month!! This is it! You are going to run a marathon this month! Things will start getting "buzzy" in the coming weeks - medal reveal, taper chat, a bit of 'maranoia', people asking you are you going to win it!

MisterJinx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122672926#Comment_122672926

A good and relatable point you made regarding the fueling. MrsJinx had a much tougher run last year than she expected and that the training would have indicated. We've though about it a bit since then and realised breakfast and an early start was the issue. We came to the start line together and I was wave 1 and she was in wave 4. We really trying figure out why she felt so flat and tired at the hm stage but of course she got to half way at around 12 and hadn't eaten any breakfast as she was up early with me before 7am and the nerves made her not want to eat. She was on the backfoot from the beginning, just like you were. Probably a good one to call for anyone up early and getting to dublin or similar that getting fuel in on the morning is important and that you need to practice it before your long runs.

Mantis Toboggan

Just a little rant but why does everyone use miles when talking about the marathon? Like it seems everyone talks about 5k's and 10k's but when talking about the marathon they revert to 50 years ago and we're back to miles.

It's just a pain in the face trying to figure out the course, pacing, water stations, constantly having to try converting back to km's. Rant over.

Sunny Dayz

Yeah another one here in relation to the early morning fuelling. I was travelling up that morning from the midlands so up at 5, on the road at 6 and yet I was in wave 4. I'd brought my usual pre-race breakfast of weetabix with me to make up when we got to the car park but nerves kicked in then and I just about managed to force some of it into me. Had brought a banana to have while waiting to start. So I'd recommend that, or a flapjack, or a bagel.

I will say - anyone travelling up and staying in a hotel in Dublin the night before - check with the hotel what the story is for breakfast.

Trampas

If you eat bagels they’re great for bringing your own and just ask the hotel to toast them. I put peanut butter and jam. Even brought my own bagels and peanut butter to Spain for a marathon last year and will do the same this year.

Don’t be worried about tired legs after 4-5 hour runs. Perfectly normal to be tired. Last weekend my feet were tired after 31km easy run. Couldn’t wait to finish to take the shoes off. Happens to all of us.

ILikeBoats

Was training with the club last night and there was a bit of pain in the ankle and a bit of pain in the glute.

Very sore this morning. Not sure where these niggles come out of but I'm worried.

Contemplating doing the weeks training on the bike. Supposed to be doing 30k on Sunday

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674981#Comment_122674981

Fingers crossed, its nothing serious. At this stage of your training - take no risks. When in any doubt, a trip to a physio is worth so much, as they can examine you and guide on the best path forward.

I would just also mention the importance (and difficulty) in learning the difference between aches from fatigue and pain from an injury. It can be hard to tell without experience, hence the trip to the physio. I'd be particularly wary about persistent ankle pain myself and less so than a sore glute. Still, today is Wednesday and the long run is Sunday. The pain could dicipate during the day as you start moving and maybe a short walk later will give you some better idea of where you are at.

In the meantime, rest, ice, compress, elevate.

Trampas

When it comes to leg niggles etc it can be due to a different place in leg but felt elsewhere as it’s pulling. E.g. I had a snore knee but it was due to quad pulling on the knee. So you think it was the knee issue but really the issue was created from the quad. Best get a physio to take a look but it might ease out over a day or two.

If budget allows always help to have a session booked every 3/4 weeks with a sports massages. Cheaper and usually a bit longer than physio. Great for getting them knots and tightness out that you can’t do with a foam roller etc but they can be hard to get in October as lots of people booked them well in advance due to marathon. Physio for injuries and sports massages for maintenance.

ILikeBoats

I've booked in with physio tomorrow, thankfully there was a slot.

I'm not sure is there anywhere local that does sports massages apart from the physio. There's a thai place but not sure that would be the same 😂

slingerz

Loooonnng run this weekend and the weather looking very wet for it. What are the tips for a 4:30/5 long run in the pouring rain?!

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122677976#Comment_122677976

Run in a forest as usually you won’t feel it as much with some tree cover. Try and get out before the rain starts. Don’t mind when I’m out there but starting in it can be extra hard. Straight into the shower when you finish.

Trevorfromtheshoppingcentre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122677976#Comment_122677976

Anti chafe cream and nip tape are my essentials for a long run in rain.

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122677976#Comment_122677976

You can fit the run in around the rain, there is rarely a full day of rain lately. Looking at the weather for my location, Saturday morning is showing a low likelyhood till about 10am(if I was doing a long run Saturday I would be up and out by 7am)and Sunday has a low likelihood of rain in the afternoon/evening(Run after about 3pm).

If you cant rearrange things then lots of vaseline, a peaked cap and light gear

ILikeBoats

I don't mind running in the rain as long as it's not windy, it's somewhat therapeutic or something! A plaster on the nips is a must

crisco10

I wouldn't worry about running in the rain. obviously prepare for it (chafing will be more prominent etc) but there's always the chance that Sunday 3 weeks will be a wet day, so think of it as training yourself for all weather on race day. You never know, you might learn something which could be valuable if it is indeed a wet race.

tHE vAGGABOND

I have a marathon entry I wont be using - someone message me if they want to use it.

Sunny Dayz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122674981#Comment_122674981

hope your ankle and glute are feeling a bit better. Take a couple of rest days and I think I see you’ve booked a physio so no harm.

From now on we’ll find ourselves wrapping up in cotton wool - not wanting to risk picking up an injuring or a sickness at this stage.

Listen to your body - take an extra rest day, pull back the pace, shorten your run if you feel you need to.

Sunny Dayz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122678020#Comment_122678020

first of all doing a long run in the rain will make you feel like a badass!!
treat your long run in the rain as marathon prep - it could rain on the day like it did last year. It’s a good chance to learn what works for you in the rain. If you can time it that it’s dry when you start, it makes the run a bit more bearable if it starts raining while running. It doesn’t feel so bad once you’ve warmed up and gotten into your run.

A peak cap or visor will keep the rain out of your eyes. Don’t wear a cotton or heavy top as it will only get heavier when wet. Good mention by others about the anti-chaff and nipples. If you can run somewhere a bit sheltered so you’re less exposed to the elements. Even running through a town or house estate can help. If you’ll be looping back to your car, consider having a change of top there.

If you’ve driven somewhere fit your run- have a bag packed in the car with a warm change of clothes. Even if you’ve no where to change, the very least change your top, socks and shoes and stick on a hoody and a beanie hat. If you’ve a bit of a drive, say more than 20 mins, consider picking up a takeaway hot drink to sip.

When you get home, make a hot drink if you haven’t had one already, hot shower and fresh clothes. And you’ll feel savage for having run out in that weather!

Sunny Dayz

Your marathon medal has been revealed! It looks fab, a lot of work seems to have gone into the design and production of this one. There’s even a moving part!

Per the race organisers:

The 2024 Irish Life Dublin Marathon medal 😍
It was crafted by Myla Sirvyte a talented student at the National College of Art & Design. This beautiful medal features a rotating bottom disc that symbolises the runners' journey through various intricately designed city landmarks including: Stephen's Green archway
#IrishLifeDublinMarathon #PowerOfSupport

ILikeBoats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122679907#Comment_122679907

Thanks

I have flat feet, the ankle issue is a bit of an impingement on one of the ankle ligaments due to do this. He loosened it out and gave some exercises. Glute pain seems to be compensation for the ankle pain. So all the flat feet's fault as usual!

Will lay off the running for a few days.

Mantis Toboggan

@slingerz training in the rain counts double!