2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

Trampas

Theyve always used cups in the race series. They might have a station or two with bottles in half but wouldn’t bank on it. If going to carry your own bottles on the marathon great chance to test it out while racing.

The full has always had bottles bar maybe a couple of stops.

There’ll be people collecting bottles by the dozen on the full I say to make a nice little earner

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584490#Comment_122584490

Just run Friday as plan and see how you feel. You could shift Saturday to Sunday.

nullObjects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584588#Comment_122584588

Appreciate the response, thanks!

Mantis Toboggan

Unfortunately my IT band pain kicked up in the last couple of weeks so have been running a reduced mileage. Pain had gotten pretty bad. Have been back in the physio and he's confident he'll get me to the start line so that's encouraging.

Short run tonight and it's the least pain I've felt so happy enough with that as I've a proper long run on Sunday.

Serious heat out there tonight!

ettravel

• Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)  I've jogged on and off for about 10 years. I'm 49 and use to play alot of sport, I haven't done any races recently
• Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training. No.

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training, etc - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. 

Run 2 x short and 1 long run the weekend. Sometime speed session. Long run upto 28k to date, v slow

• What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?  Just finish and have a great day

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow. About 4 days and 15 week Internet plan

• What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt. Quitting before race, my diet is shite and still have stomach issues with long runs

The most important question - Why are you running this marathon? . I've always admired marathon runners and going to watch a friend last year in dublin marathon inspired me to finally try stick at Something long term and don't quit.

slingerz

hard week last week found the legs very tired .

managed the long run better than I ever have. Think I fueled better beforehand and during and took on enough water too.

i have my 1/2 this weekend in Kilkenny rather than the race series the week after. Do I sub in that weeks running to this one and vice versa?

also, should I try and race the 1/2? My long runs have been walking inclines to get the distance in but I wouldn’t mind seeing if I can run/race a 1/2 at this stage

SimpleDimple

Not great last week - I only did the 8 on Wednesday and then 4 on Sunday evening. Fairly busy with life and given how tired I was on Sunday evening it tells me there wasn’t much to be gained in getting the big miles in.

It’s a new week today so I am planning to get back on track!

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595267#Comment_122595267

You're folllwing HH Novice 1 if I'm not mistaken?

This week (12) is a bit of a step back for you so it kind of fits in with a HM, depending on how you decide to run it.

You have choices, and it really is your decision how you want to play it. In the Boards plans, the Race Series are marked out as races where folks will give it pretty much all. If you want to follow that race-approach this week, you need to be aware that it requires adjustments to both this week and next week to allow more recovery. The alternative is to incorporate Kilkenny into your normal training long run this weekend, maybe giving it a little extra in the second half if you feel like you're up for it, but still get the experience of prep for the big day as well as running with people and everything else a race entails.

I think if I was in your position, I would try to run it all (or as much as I can) at a comfortable pace. It seems a pretty flat course except for a bit of an incline about 6k in which you could choose to walk. That way you will get a really good idea of where you are on an overall flatter course. It also means you won't really need to disrupt your plans as it just means tagging an additional 2k on this weeks long run, which will still be 5-6k less than you ran Saturday.

If do you do want to race it, well, you would likely have to cut back your distance on Wed & Thurs and same next Tue & Wed.

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596335#Comment_122596335

Life happens, but you've the right attitude - this is a new week and do try to get back on track. I know you are feeling tired, but running on tired legs is part of the process. It will really help you in the latter stages. Just remember - one week at a time.

(oh, and interesting that you are using old money - miles instead of kms :-))

Just a bit of a personal anecdote for this month. I always find September the most difficult month of the entire training block. We are still far enough away from the big day but we are up into the big mileage weeks. At this stage you have likely run the same routes a dozen times and it may at times get a little boring. If you are finding the long runs difficult (don't we all?) consider driving somewhere competely new for your long run. It can freshen things up a lot. In just a few short weeks we will be starting the taper, so try stick with your plan as much as you

For those lucky enough to live close enough to Dublin, plan this month if you can to run part of the course. Not only will it give you a good idea of the route, but you can imagine what it will be like on the day with the hordes of cheering people and the excitement of it all. Another suggestion is something I managed to do last year - my other half was heading out so I got her to drop me off on the way so my long run was just a run home - no out and back.

Something else I recommend is to priortise sleep as much as you can for the next few weeks. You just can't get enough.

nullObjects

I found these useful for the route:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReycTnFQ4pk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5JAXlFnbWU

can look out for landmarks for when running it in person
(I'm terrible with directions at the best of times!)

comanche_cor

Last week 50k

Mon|Tues|Wed|Thur|Fri||Sat|Sun

10k w intervals|rest|rest|9k tempo|9k easy|s&c|22k w  11k @ MP

So week one of holidays. Positives I managed to get all my runs and and get back to s&c after almost 2 weeks off.

However, there's always a but! I blew up badly on my long run. Now there's many reasons for this, not sure there is any one reason but this is my thinking on it. Hopefully I can learn some lessons from it:

- I did not take 22k seriously, was thinking at this stage it's not a big distance it's only 2hrs at an easy pace

- I had an awful night's sleep the night before, prob 3 - 4 hours

- had GI issues during the night nothing serious but enough

- because of GI issues I decided not to take any gels 

- I did not bring any water and did not plan any water stops (there were no shops on route apart from start and end) - not taking 22k seriously

- I was comfortable with morning temps on holidays raising my HR by a few beats but did not account for humidity after rain. This ended up being a tempo run (zone 3) rather than (zone 2)

So I think this combined with tired legs (longest week yet), sore muscles back to s&c lead to a blow up. 

I know that I should have finished this run feeling fresh and it was the complete opposite. I possibly could have gotten away with it had I fueled and hydrated correctly. However, I think the nub of this is that I should have dialled back the paces. I both felt it and had the data on my watch but was too concerned with sticking to the plan. 

It has of course got me questioning where I am at and if I am capable of the paces and distances. I am beginning to doubt my self a little - but I think it was just a bad day and FD 10m was a positive benchmark. However, there is still some doubt there

Next week:

Mon|Tues|Wed|Thur|Fri||Sat|Sun

S&c|6k tempo|s&c|8k (mile repeats)|rest|7.5k easy|31k (1k @ 4:55)

Will still be on holiday so need to slot this in with moving around and flights. Glad to say that my long run will be back in Ireland!

LostArt

Found the last week pretty hard and the legs very tired.

The long run went well though, the last 5km wasnt good but i was happy with my time and if I really had to I could have made the full marathon distance so that was comforting.

I ran a little later in the morning than usual but it gave me time to fuel and hydrate well before so I'll try keep that routine now.

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596879#Comment_122596879

As a matter of interest, what was your long run distance?

LostArt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597174#Comment_122597174

20 miles. My longest ever!

rosenallis

Had an ok week. Made the runs, but not the S&C

Longest run yet was 16 miles. (Found the last 2-3 miles i was excited about traffic lights and the opportunity they gave me for a brief rest! I'll admit i could have made a couple of green men crossing, but slowed down to get the red light). A bit similar to Commanche_cor above, i'm a bit dubious about to the full marathon distance. Every long run i'm really limping over the last couple of miles - so if i get to 20M with my longest run and the last couple of miles are a struggle, similar to my current experience, i'm not sure how i'll stretch the other 6 miles on top!?

Trying to work on my nutrition. Saturday ate loads, and carbs, sunday morning big bowl of porridge. Not sure if it helped or not. Felt very full at start, and not hungry so i think that's ok? Found i needed to go use pee quite a lot on the run around, i assume this is normal in marathon?

I was so conscious of water/ gels i spent most of the way around flaffing with belt and bottles and gels and clothes, but think i've a good handle of them now. Tried a different gel this week and i just felt quite ill after the run. Doubt i could have taken any more withouth vomitting to be honest, so will have to try another type. Had Cliff blox and they seemed ok as i've a sweeth-tooth. This week:

Tuesday 5M - longer hill repeats, i'll probably just switch this for a 5M run

Thursday 5M intervals

Friday 6.2M Easy

Sunday half marathon

2 x S&C and 1 X yoga.

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122597413#Comment_122597413

Excellent. Well done. The reason I asked is because you suggested you could have made the full marathon distance. I don't doubt you at all, but just a word of caution: that's the distance where it actually begins to get proper hard, and you'll hear over and over again - the marathon is a run of 2 halfs - the first 20 miles and the second 10k. If you can get to 20 miles in training with the cumulative fatigue and reckoning that you would have managed another 10k, that's a wonderful place to be.

It might be worth thinking about that run while it is still fresh in your head - how did you feel at the various stages before it got hard in the final 5k. That might help you in the race itself - remembering how you felt and helping you keep in check so you don't get caught up in the buzz of the crowds and adrenaline.

Congrats on such an excellent achievement.

ILikeBoats

Been following this since the start and I would like to start contributing.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yes. I plod around so nothing spectacular
5k - 24.26
10k - 52.16
10m - 1.27
Half - 1.56

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training, etc - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

I attempted the Rotterdam marathon last April, got to February and had huge knee issues. After an MRI and a trip to a surgeon it seems I have arthritis and some overload phenomenon in my right knee. Advised to stop running but at least cut down. So I've been doing a lot of base training on the bike. Currently run training 3 days a week - intervals, easy and long run.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Under 4.15 would make me a happy man

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
3 run days as I said. 2 days on a bike. A cross training session - either elliptical, strength and conditioning or ski, a swim session.
Following a 20 week 3 run plan from Runna - distances only, not the sub-details like 2k warm up, 3k @ 5.10
I did 30k yesterday (longest ever), legs feel ok today, looking good!

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
To be injured again, it's heart-breaking

The most important question - Why are you running this marathon?
It's totally against what I told myself much of my adult life. Never thought I'd be able but joined local run club last year and it's been up and up, a great decision. Also I really enjoy the process. Having a plan makes me do things.
I also really really want the Dublin Marathon woolly hat and to wear it smugly.

AlmightyCushion

Training was going really well up until a few weeks ago. I felt pretty good even during the harder and longer runs. Then got sick a few weeks ago and took a few days off. I was feeling better the day of the warriors run in Sligo (August 24th) so did that. Ended up getting sick again a few days later. I must not have been fully over what I had. Symptoms wise I have felt fine the past few days. I tried a very easy paced 5k and 8k over the past few days and they didn't feel great so body is still recovering. Gonna keep taking it easy and getting plenty of rest. I'll try the odd easy paced run just to see how it feels. Hopefully it won't be too long until I am back to being able to train properly.

It's just frustrating as fúck because training was going so well and I felt great doing it.

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596532#Comment_122596532

Blowing up in training is a great way to learn a lot, so take it as a positive.

- I did not take 22k seriously, was thinking at this stage it's not a big distance it's only 2hrs at an easy pace

Hah. "only 2hrs".

- I had an awful night's sleep the night before, prob 3 - 4 hours

Yep, that is never a good thing.

- had GI issues during the night nothing serious but enough

Okay, but lack of sleep as well and going for a 2 hour run when you wake up…

- because of GI issues I decided not to take any gels 

Oh! So, GI issues, nothing mentioned about breakfast, and no gels while going for a 2 hour run - yeah, that's always going to be hard. You could have done with some electrolytes/salt tabs to try and recover a bit first, but I'd focus on the positives here - you bonked and kept on going. You know what it feels like and what will happen if you don't get your nutrition right. Also worth just calling out that if you could run 2 hours normally without gels or water, don't try that in the marathon. Also, taking gels and water on the long runs is not just about keeping your energy levels up - its just as much about training your body to digest when your under a lot of physical stress.

- I did not bring any water and did not plan any water stops (there were no shops on route apart from start and end) - not taking 22k seriously

No water after GI issues. You know yourself - you need to be very careful about being sufficiently hydrated. Not only does it impact your run and risk injury, but it will also hamper your recovery so make sure you take it particularly easy in the next couple of days.

Overall though, you had one bad run but still done the distance. I wouldn't be doubting myself on just that. You're flying and well on course to have a smashing run, so just keep it going.

SimpleDimple

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596452#Comment_122596452

Thanks for the response. I also meant to add I had a sports message last week and it was a great fix for some of the niggles I have m has built up.
And good spot on the old money measurement, even though I was running in metric before I started training for this, I’m less daunted by the prospect of 26 somethings than 42 somethings!

comanche_cor

@TheRef thanks for taking the time to respond in detail. A lot of good points and take aways.

Seems like you have a sixth sense - yup no breakfast also, guilty as charged 😱

Have been stuffing myself with the electrolytes since Sunday.

I never thought of taking on water as part of training - thanks for pointing that out. Certainly not something I would ever do in a race but thought I could get away with in training - but what you have pointed out shows me I have been thinking about it incorrectly.

There's lots for me to learn from this.

Sunny Dayz

Well done on completing week 11 everyone, also if you ran in that heat on Saturday. It was also a landmark week for anyone on the Boards plan with the first 20 mile run – a huge milestone. Those following Hal Higdon have a couple more weeks to get ready for that one. Sorry I’ve not been as present online here lately – I started a new job recently and it’s been a bit of a change for me. But back to the training, only four more (tough) weeks of training before we start to the taper. And they are going to be tough, the body is fatigued, muscles sore, it feels like the marathon is taking up so much of your time, you might be boring your family with talk of your training. But keep that consistency and great work going and it will pay dividends come race day I promise. 

It's to be expected to have some level of muscle soreness at this stage as the body is pushed further than before. Plenty stretching and foam rolling will help, but if issues persist then get yourself to a physio. Also might sound obvious but don’t forget to rest.  

The plans for the week are as follows: 

Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday 

HHN1|rest|4m easy|8m easy|5m easy|rest|12m LSR|rest 

Boards|rest, cross or 3m rec|6m easy|1m w/u,9m pace,1m c/d|3m rec |rest, cross or 3m rec|16m LSR|3m rec 

12M=19km   16M =25.75km  

This is a step back week in terms of the LSR mileage this week, this is to allow the body to rest and repair and take in those training benefits. I’d say some of you might be glad of the breather, I know I am. And how many of you looked at the plan and thought only 12M/16M this week?! We're also factoring in the DCM Half marathon which is in week 13 (end of next week) so this allows a little bit of freshness to creep back into the legs for that race (for those doing it). I saw the medal reveal for the Dublin half this evening – it’s a really nice medal, it has my hopes up for a nice marathon medal this year – I wasn’t mad about last year’s medal (although I didn’t say no to it!!). 

On the HH plan we pair back the LSR this week and a slight dip in overall weekly mileage. For the Boards crew we are also dropping the length of the LSR but overall the mileage is consistent with week 11 with the mid week runs upping the distances slightly. The pmp pace session is back this week as well, so again, try and dial into the effort, it's not easy, it's a couple of gears above it. Don't push the pace. 

I know I’m a little behind this week and some of you have already posted your recaps, so how was week 11 for you? 

- Did you complete all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not? 

- Did you complete all the runs at an appropriate pace? 

Best of luck everyone with the week ahead. You are all doing great and it's such an achievement to get to this point. These are the toughest weeks IMO, I know you are tired but we only have these few hard weeks to go and we'll be almost there. 

Sunny Dayz

emails were sent out this afternoon and evening from eventmaster with the wave numbers for the marathon.
The start times for the waves are as follows:

wave 1 at 8:45 am, wave 2 at 9:05 am, wave 3 at 9:25 am and wave 4 at 9:45 am.

You can drop down a wave start on the day, eg allocated wave 2 but start in wave 3. They say on the website that you can’t move up a wave but id imagine if you have another marathon race result or even a really good half marathon result it might be worth chancing an email to them asap. Please don’t hassle the volunteers on the morning about moving up a wave.

Eeekk!!! I think this is the first bit of correspondence for the marathon since registration - apart from how to get rid of your entry!

Mantis Toboggan

Yeah I've been assigned wave 4 which is grand for me as that's my level but a little disappointed as I was planning on following the 4.10 pacer for as long as possible.

I might try sneak into wave 3 on the morning.

ILikeBoats

I'm in wave 3 so will be latching on to the 4.10 pacer

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604220#Comment_122604220

If you don't mind Mantis if I use you as an example as you mention something many novices have fallen victim to (myself included). When asked what your dream finishing time would be, you said "Gold for me would be to finish it inside 4.30 ". I don't know if you are suggesting you will go with the 4:10 team thinking it will give you the best chance of finishing in 4:30, or if you are thinking your original ambitions were too conservative. If the former, you will end up going out too fast, blowing up early and likely having a tortuous race and a lot of regret. If the latter, really ask yourself what has changed in the last 3 months. Getting the race pacing right will be so so important to enjoying the day and there will be lots of discussion about that in October. And also, think about crossing the finish line achieveing the goal you set yourself at the start of this journey (whether 4, 4:30, 5, 6, or just to finish).

I suggest having a look at some recent Dublin marathon runs on Strava from different folks and look at what happened over the last 10k. For example, see here and here and here as some random runs I found and even my own from 2022 and 2023 and see how easy and common it is to blow up. Those last 8-10k really needs to be respected and what you do in the first 20 miles will really determine what kind of run you will have.

So, Wave 4 is the right place if targetting 4:30. You will be with loads of people who are at a similar level and get great help from the pacing team. Besides, if you get to the last 5k feeling good, just think about how great you will feel passing masses of people who went out too fast. That feeling will give you so much more motivation to do it all again 😆

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604674#Comment_122604674

*In addition you should be planning on running the first 7 miles of Dublin 5-15 seconds per mile slower than your target pace. The first mile or two are mayhem with other runners, don't try to bob and weave too much and the next 5 are all slightly uphill so be conservative. If you want to use the pacers wait till mile 10 or 11. If your behind them then, that's when they are most useful.

brick tamland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122603153#Comment_122603153

Just for info I tried emailing them with other results and was politely told to get lost. Seems to have based it on last years times if you had one. No pacers for me this year

Sunny Dayz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604853#Comment_122604853

fair enough, it’s something I haven’t needed to do myself but figured a polite email would be worth a try.

rosenallis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122604674#Comment_122604674

What's the opinion on running with pacers/ not? I kind of like the idea of running at my own pace and not to be in a bubble with the crowd around them.