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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    In addition, on their trump card issue i.e. housing, their policy proposal is so awful that it will crumble with any serious scrutiny. I am amazed that it hasn't been dissected in detail as yet, maybe FF and FG are waiting until closer to the election to blow EOB out of the water. There is a strong campaign to make a similar model illegal in the UK, on the grounds that it is feudal and draconian on the occupier.

    It looks to me that SF worked backways on the numbers in terms of building costs. They simply couldn't make the budget work due to land costs so they said 'lets keep the land ownership ourselves and only cost the construction costs'. Absolute fantasy, and totally irresponsible.

    Do you want to 'own' a house but not the ground underneath it? Didn't think so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,122 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    We got rid of ground rent after the british left, thankfully. Some areas in the UK still have this today. A ridiculous concept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Agreed, when one pejorative term is ruled out, another one is invented. "Cozy relationship" has replaced "power swap".

    It does show a serious level of ignorance of Irish history. Anyone who claims to have lived through the 1980s, and witnessed Haughey and Fitzgerald will know beyond a doubt that there was never a cozy relationship between FF and FG.

    It all designed to inflame and bait other posters, so best ignored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Well done on being appointed spokesman for everyone.

    A coalition is always a pragmatic compromise. I knew that in the world of realpolitick that FF and FG would, if necessary, coalesce. You could see that when they went into C&S and it was why Micheal felt it necessary to tell voters he would 'never' do it.

    Those in the media and political observers saw Michael Martin open the door to a SF coalition and shut it again when he realised he would not get the seats he thought he would to allow him negotiate first go at Taoiseach. He turned to a party with less seats. A party who thought that putting FF in charge was like putting John Delaney back in the FAI.

    SF said they will talk to anyone about coalition. They haven't done the sham rhetoric of 'We'll never…'.etc etc

    Speaking after meeting the Green Party leader Eamon Ryan on Wednesday, Mrs McDonald said: "I have made it clear since before the election - and after - that I will speak to all parties in the interests of forming a government; starting with those th a mandate for change.

    Ideally, they wouldn't want to form a coalition, no party would.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sinn Fein did have the numbers in 2020 to form a government without FF and FG.

    Sinn Fein = 37

    Green = 12

    Labour = 6

    Social Democrats = 6

    Solidarity = 5

    Aontu = 1

    Independents for Change = 1

    That gives 68 seats. Adding 12 of the 19 independents would give a majority.

    There was one huge problem though. Sinn Fein didn't make any serious effort to form such a government, to the extent that Solidarity made public a letter excorciating SF on this issue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don't think (I don't know what the SF view on this is) that a government of other parties had a chance of stability, no.

    A smart move IMO. For the country and themselves.

    I have said before, I don't think they should enter a government here if they cannot negotiate a satisfactory programme for government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,122 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I thought the prior act abolished it and that the purchase scheme ended it. For private property anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We didn't 'get rid of ground rent after the British left'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yes, new houses built after 1978 don't have ground rent as it was abolished. You are correct.

    Where it exists prior to 1978, there is a right to buy it out.

    You are substantially correct that ground rent has been abolished for private housing.

    A nitpicking pedantic response that distorted the truth and confused the issue was what you got back from that poster.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,122 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Well 1978 was after the british left. Now, I don't see why you're being so obfuscatory here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    😁
    Look, you said 'we got rid of ground rent after the British left'. You didn't specify.
    Despite the 'substantially right' defence, we didn't get rid of them, ground rents are still paid, you posted wrong info.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Do you agree with a leasehold model for housing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Par for the course. Ground rents for private housing, a relic from older days, have been abolished since the British left. Denying that reality is silliness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not generally. If defined for certain types of property and the leaseholder is not a private investor, I think it could work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ground rents for private housing,

    The poster didn't say that. Give it up. 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    The idea of a left coalition is fantasy. In the first instance, PBP/RISE will never enter government. They exist to protest and pontificate, the idea of governing or compromising is anathema to them. Paul Murphy is one of the only TDs to criticise the Hate Speech bill, but realistically he would have no problem with the state using the law against those who disagree with them, he just knows he'll never ever be in government to exercise that power himself.

    The on top of that, how could Sinn Féin and the Greens agree to govern when Sinn Féin oppose just about every environmental policy the government brings in? They'll always claim the environment is a top priority for them, but that the steps taken to reduce emissions, or protect wildlife shouldn't involve any effort or change on anyone's part. Sinn Féin aim for the "D4 bike riding Greens are out to kill real rural Ireland" vote; one of the their top TDs described the prospect of the Greens losing all their seats in the next election as the "best case scenario".

    Then you've Labour, the SDs, Aontú who'll all have their own demands too.

    But even if they'd overcame those issues and united all the parties other than FF and FG in a coalition, they'd have needed 13 Independents to get the slimmest possible majority. A majority which would always be on a knife edge and where all it'd take to collapse the government would be for a single disgruntled TD from any of the 10+ factions in the coalition to defect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Greens would have no problems with a SF coalition. They'd do what they are doing now, moralise and pontificate to everyone else and turn a blind eye when it comes to holding onto to their comfy seats in government.

    Of all our political class I disrespect them most tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    😂

    Yes a political party which set out an agenda and then tries it's best as a small partner to deliver on that agenda, the agenda which people voted them in for

    Of course you disrespect them 😂

    Hilarious

    Better off idolising a party of incompetence from top to bottom



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yeah, the good republicans hate the Greens because the Greens stand by their principles. The Greens will leave this government with some solid achievements - Metrolink, Dart Plus, BusConnects, carbon tax increases, Climate Action Act, retrofitting grant schemes, childcare improvements, traffic changes in Dublin City - all core priorities of the party. The Greens won't be bothered by losing seats, because they will have achieved real permanent change.

    The good republicans in Sinn Fein are in the process of selling out on every single principle they ever had - anyone remember the years of opposing the Special Criminal Court for example? They have one core priority - Brits Out - and if they go into government, progress towards this core priority is likely to go backwards.

    The Greens therefore are the complete opposite of Sinn Fein.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    then tries it's best 

    Really? I'll let a former Green Party member explain it:

    The Green Party over the last two decades is devoid of strong principled leadership, just at a time when it is really needed. There is an ethos of compromise and playing the game, whatever the politics of the day. There is an ideology that the Green Party can be all things to all people. A sense that the party is lucky if it can get into government, and no matter what main party is in the driving seat, we can tack on to it and get some of our policies adopted, like a sucker-fish alongside a great white shark. We are the ‘tack-on party’, never to be leaders, always the scapegoats for anti-green outrage and at the same time a supplier of the best stolen ideas.

    They'll 'tack themselves on' to whosoever offers them comfortable seats. They'd have no dilemma entering a SF coalition in other words.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-im-leaving-green-party-conor-coady/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Wiped out in the 2011 GE and looking like another one at the next GE. I think they are 'hated' by more than republicans and Sinn Fein TBH



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    In my previous post I noted that the Greens won't be bothered by losing seats, because they have achieved real permanent change. Power doesn't matter to them if they can't achieve change.

    Sinn Fein are the new Fianna Fail, the achievement of power is the objective, not the welfare of the people, not the future of the country. Each and every policy is up for changing if that is the populist way. From penal tax increases, to the Special Criminal Court, to open borders for everyone, Sinn Fein has changed its policies over the last few years, all in a desperate attempt to achieve power. Not just changed its policies, after all, every political party makes adjustments in policy from time to time, but Sinn Fein have completed huge u-turns, following the people, not leading them.

    Real leadership is about bringing change when it is the right thing to do, and now wavering from that. The Greens have demonstrated that leadership throughout this government, while Sinn Fein have done the opposite.

    The Greens will lose seats in the next election but they will be back. More importantly, the legacy of their achievements this time around will live on.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,946 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Conor Coady sounds awfully like a fool who has no idea how effective politics work and is more concerned with upending the world order than actually productively fighting climate change.

    And yet accomplished far more than any of the perennial opposition ever have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think they are more and more redundant tbh. Membership of the EU requires all parties in government to implement green policies.
    The next wipeout may be the last one for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Ahh its the online army picked the Greens and went after them for a few years now. Seemingly been able to achieve goals winded them up no end.

    It's all noise from a group that would never vote for them in the first place. Plus the so called "they only got in because of SF transfers" turned out to be bullsh*t as well but you hear it daily from the SF trolls.

    It was funny on Christmas day, no other political thread was active on boards apart from the same few posters moaning about the Greens, couldn't take the day off. The main one saying he/she was voting SF so they would stop the "wind power madness", when I pointed out SF plan was to increase wind and not reduce it, well lets say the "wind was taken out of their sails"

    Lets just say they wouldn't be the brightest star in the sky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,220 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


     from a group that would never vote for them in the first place

    4.2% in the last poll suggests it's more than a group who have a problem with them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sinn Fein are the party of wanting more windmills, but we can't have them within 5km of anyone's house because of noise, and anyone can build a house anywhere they want from the top of a mountain to the bottom of every boreen and we will provide all public services within twenty minutes of them. End result will be there will be nowhere to put a windmill, which will somehow be the Greens' fault.

    Sinn Fein are the biggest danger to the Green agenda.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Sinn Fein are the biggest danger to "insert every topic"

    They are incompetent, even an alternative budget they couldn't produce

    They are a danger to MNC's and all the jobs in Ireland from them, they want to remove LPT, which would reduce the money into county councils. Meaning all the playgrounds and amenities we are getting now will be gone, two huge playgrounds open in our area recently and done by the county council. They would be gone.

    Name a topic and its a ramble of incompetence is all you get from them

    The only plus would be it might stop them blocking every development in Ireland and driving up the price of houses/apartments as they spend years in court.

    All you have is noise from the party, noise from the online clown brigade and incompetence from top to bottom. Drop kicking them into the middle of the atlantic would be no harm for both sides of the border



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