Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083530#Comment_122083530

Only if you think political party support is a static thing. It isn’t and never was.
There’s a plethora of threads on the demise of opposition support.
The real player politically is the stagnancy of the 2 main government parties and how that will feed into future relationships.
I don’t think FF and FG are that comfortable with one another. If you think Michael undermined a FG Minister for Justice for the lols or by accident you are politically naive IMO. The animosity and jockeying is under wraps…for now.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083765#Comment_122083765

And do you think SF was in a coalition government with FF and/or a bunch of other parties there would be no jockeying for position. It the nature if the beast that is politics. Francie you make some naive statements.

SF, FF and FG are all struggling to get the message accross. The winner at present are the independents. Lookin at the figures compared to the last election on a poll of polls basis

FG 21/22 peaked at 35 in between

SF 25/27 peaked at 35 in between

FF 22/17 Di not move outside these percentages

IND 14/19 bottomed out at 7% in between

Smaller part are more or less as you were.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-election-poll-tracker-sinn-fein-on-top-but-lead-narrows-1593121.html

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084118#Comment_122084118

And do you think SF was in a coalition government with FF and/or a bunch of other parties there would be no jockeying for position. It the nature if the beast that is politics. Francie you make some naive statements.

Of course there will be jockeying for position and the usual politicking.

Where did I say there wouldn't?
The politically naive are those who insist all is well within a party struggling to tread water.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083765#Comment_122083765

Its very relevant to this thread

35% SF -Easier to form a government

25% SF -Difficult to form a government

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084498#Comment_122084498

You are debating with someone who believes that they would have entered talks to form a government had it not been for a party leaders overweening desire to be Taoiseach.
He clearly demonstrated that he was open to talks when he thought he had many more seats but quickly shut it again because he knew he would not have first dibs on the job he craved.

All that happened with SF on 24%. So 24% would have been enough. In other words, they don't have to hit 35%.
Events, dear boy, events will dictate how it goes.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084530#Comment_122084530

So you're advocating for an SFF government?

Might happen

But it won't if the numbers for some version of the current government stack up can it and try as they might it's detractors eager attempts to describe it as unstable don't stack up given it looks like going full term or near full term does it

Again on topic,we know the Healy Rae's and like minded would vote against Martin for Taoiseach but would they vote for Mary Lou ,unlikely,ditto the majority of the incumbent independents given thats where the wind is blowing ,they're an easier catch for the current government,unless Mary offers them a rotating Teesh ?

You're certainly right about events

Only 8 or 9 months left for the Events to improve Sinn Féins performance but they wouldnt want any events of their own

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084851#Comment_122084851

Keeping being selective pureza.
I also know stuff that will have impact on events.
I think one of those impacts will be FF self image and identity doubts.
We'll see. A fascinating period of Irish politics to be honest. There has already been big changes and there is the possibility of more.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084498#Comment_122084498

I would not say 35% SF would be easier to form a government. Both would be nigh on impossible. Didnt SF have 35% approx after the last election ? (from memory only, stand to be corrected).

I think SF would need over 40% of seats to even consider being able to form a government

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085097#Comment_122085097

24.5%

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085005#Comment_122085005

Well if you want me to be less selective,maybe start a new thread on a wider subject?

You know the title of this one

I do agree at the rate they're going,there won't be room for a sheet of paper between Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil in terms of identity,theres bound to be heretofore SF supporters not happy with that either btw and its a bigger change for them than the FF crowd

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085285#Comment_122085285

Can you imagine how many people will not vote SF again if they voted, ugh, "for change", only for SF to get into bed with the sleaziest worst most corrupt parties of them all, FF!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085285#Comment_122085285

Well anyone who votes for SF and who doesn't listen to the leader deserves all the rude awakenings they get.
She has, since taking office, been very clear that she will talk to anyone about forming a government.

How are FF core voters feeling having been told that FF 'will never' coalesce with FG?

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085328#Comment_122085328

I've no idea,except they're more and more drawing their pensions

I'd say if the numbers secured it,Id imagine the members would definitely vote to return a new version of this government,they certainly won't be knocking the doors come election saying how terrible each other are

But if it got to a post election vote for a return stage by FF,FG and green members ,Sinn Féins goose would have been cooked anyway

I guess we'll know by this time next year,how many sleeps ?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085584#Comment_122085584

I'd say if the numbers secured it,Id imagine the members would definitely vote to return a new version of this government,they certainly won't be knocking the doors come election saying how terrible each other are

Seriously, could anyone trust anything they say? That's their real problem next time out.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085682#Comment_122085682

You could say that of all politicians

Politics 101 : present manifesto

Politics 101 : Dump half of it or more in negotiations for government

Politics 101 : If you're a party so far apart from others and seriously want to get into government,just dump a lot of the policies previously held dear in an attempt to be credible to the other parties prior to election

blanch152

If Sinn Fein cannot con FF into government, they won't form a government. The price they will pay will include a rotating Taoiseach, possibly even with FF going first as SF have zero Ministerial experience.

However, it won't get to that. 55% of the electorate hate Sinn Fein and will never vote for them. Any party that goes in with SF will pay a heavy price. FG will smartly rule out SF to look at getting that vote.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087623#Comment_122087623

Sinn Fein cannot con FF into government,

Hilarious. 'I will never coalesce with FG' - Micheal Martin.
'Putting a FF minister of finance in government is like asking John Delaney back to run the FAI' - Leo Varadkar.

Who got conned there?

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087687#Comment_122087687

Ah here now,you're not serious?

He changed his mind

Surely you're not reverting back to the old Sinn Féin position on EU referenda ,that people shouldnt be allowed to change their mind?

Sinn Féin afterall have become serial mind changers 😂

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087807#Comment_122087807

As long as we don’t pretend only one party play the field Pureza as some folk around these parts like to do.

Yeh, I admire politicians and parties who can change bur don’t be telling me MM and Lv were not in the con game.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087985#Comment_122087985

If you think all Irish politicians are in the con game ( you mentioned FF and FG - please do not attempt to tell us your SF were / are not in the con game…take its leader for most of the past 40 years - for example does anyone believe him when he says he was not in the IRA, so is or was he conning too )….do you think all politicians overseas are in the con game too?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088791#Comment_122088791

I didn’t introduce the concept of a ‘con’.

There is though a fascinating and probably lively debate to be had on previous leaders of political parties here, I’m thinking Haughey, Ahern, Kenny and Adams too and the level of ‘conning’ they pulled off. But it isn’t for this thread.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089057#Comment_122089057

No, but you asked "Who got conned there?" and you stated in a following post "don’t be telling me MM and Lv were not in the con game."

MM and LV's governments were not perfect but most of the problems we have are first world problems, and in fairness the country has full employment, record spending is being spent on educatuion and health, it is not borrowing tens of billions extra every year to keep the show on the road etc. We know what other politicians are like in this country too. So answer the question: do you think all politicians overseas are in the con game too, or is it just Irish politicians you think "are in the con game"?

Bobson Dugnutt

Gerry Adams knew his brother was a rapist and pedophile and did nothing about it. In fact he suggested to his brother that he leave NI and work in Dundalk. He later became Gerry’s election agent.

That’s the sort of man Adams is. His attempts to portray himself as some sort of slightly eccentric elder statesman on Twitter should be seen for what it is.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089160#Comment_122089160

Totally agree that he did the absolute wrong thing in relation to his brother and I am glad he has admitted to wrong doing and addressed that.

Not seeing the 'elder statesman' vibe, I'd associate that more with Ahern's rehabilitation (albeit ably assisted by some in the media) but I think I stopped following him on twitter. Will have a look.
I doubt his musing will affect government talks though, so doubtless this is off topic.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089461#Comment_122089461

I think you are correct in that "his musings" will not "affect government talks though"…."his musings" would only affect government talks if SF were likely or attempting to form a government.

Good loser

O Broin interviewed on Morning Ireland re housing Thurs.

Interesting contrast between his attitudes to house prices and rentals. Contradictions actually. SF are against 'Right to Buy' and a few other such Govt policies on the grounds that they raise house prices and restrict supply for others in the market.

Restricting house rents, limiting evictions and other constraints on landlords have the same effects on the rental market i.e. limit supply of houses etc for rent and push up the level of rents for those in the market for tenancies.

He's slippery!

Clo-Clo

Sinn Fein manage to yet again prove how incompetent they are and the DUP not much better

Can't even arrange a meet and greet with the Taoiseach without f**king it up.

Doesn't bode well for the people of Northern ireland, especially when you consider the meeting was about cross border project

Incompetence again on display with everything to do with Sinn Fein

https://www.yahoo.com/news/irish-premier-visit-northern-ireland-080016288.html

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094515#Comment_122094515

It shows how much you know if you think either SF or any other party in the north would be singlehandedly making the arrangements for something like this.
It would be an entirely civil service function and politicians would be told where to be.
Anyway, it seems the 'incompetence' was on the Harris delegations side according to the BBC.

A Stormont source said it is normal for official delegations to phone ahead to say they were imminent.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094930#Comment_122094930

I’m shocked the responses is another in the latest long line of excuses when it comes to anything SF are involved in

You could say it’s just bad luck, but it’s just incompetence as usual

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122094976#Comment_122094976

They didn't phone ahead Clo.

That's embarrassing for you tbh. The idea that SF are at fault for everything is one of you competencies even if you are wrong. 😁