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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭dublin49


    This Stormy D case is a disaster for Democrats and all who want to see shut of the dangerous imbecilic clown.You could be suspicious Trump's team were behind the procescution it plays so well for them and totally undermines the veracity of the more serious cases against the orange nut.First Comey does for Hilary and then this ,ffs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    As its not a democrat case not sure what the Democrats can do about it.

    But on what basis is it a disaster for Biden? You think Trump prefers this than to be out campaigning? No doubt it plays well to his MAGA supporters, but then there is nothing Trump or the Democrats could do to lose them.

    It puts an important legal marker down. That no matter who you are you are not above the law. If that helps Trump win then so be it. That is what the people want to vote for.

    The alternative is to not take a case on the basis that it might not suit your political view. Once that happens the law is corrupted and the only matter is who is in charge.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    So how is the defence questioning of Cohen going to go?

    Defence: Your a liar aren't you?

    Cohen : Yep, I lied to Congress about not having done dodgy things for Trump. Then I went to jail for lying because I did actually do the things on behalf of Trump.

    Defence : See he's a liar. But, members of the jury, please ignore the bit about doing the things on behalf of Trump.

    It's already been determined that the things Cohen says are true, because he went to jail for lying under oath. Therfore it's already shown that Trump is guilty.

    Either Trump is guilty, or Cohen didn't lie to Congress. It just doesn't make any logical sense for the defence to use that angle against Cohen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Its as if life is an alternative reality for those on Trump-world.

    One thing that may have a relevance in how things are going on within the family between Don, Melania and Barron is Barron declining the invite to attend AS A DELGATE at the GOP meet in Florida. This is after media reports that it was Melania who stated he would NOT be attending as a delegate and after he had attended at a [day/s] earlier previous GOP meeting in Florida.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,871 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Listening to some legal people following the case it seems that the facts of the case point toward a Guilty verdict. Trump's main hope seems to be that at least one juror will hold out (In New York criminal cases it needs to be a unanimous verdict).

    If there's some secret Trumper on the jury then they just need an excuse to disregard each of these key witnesses, even if it doesn't necessarily make logical sense. For Cohen they can just say "I don't believe a word that man says - he's a proven liar" and leave it at that - no second order thinking necessary. I'd imagine that's what the defence are banking on.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,064 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    Yes, and they did manage to get one juror on who stated they got their news through Truth Social, so the unanimous verdict is a tough sell, even if everyone knows the reality of the situation.

    To think a megalomaniac like Trump wouldn't have been all over it seems farcical



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,064 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    So I believe. I guess you only have a certain quota of vetos, and maybe they'd hit their limit?

    It may have been a slight sensationalisation of the statement and they said that they read Truth Social but didn't get all their news from it, but I remember at the time thinking that should have been an automatic red flag



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭RickBlaine


    There was definitely one juror who said they saw tweets of Trump's Truth Social posts. There is an account on Twitter whose sole purpose is to tweet everything Trump posts on Truth Social. I think this is what the juror was alluding to. This is certainly different to directly following trump on Truth Social. Not sure if this is the juror you are thinking of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,764 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Had Trump not ran for president , none of these cases would be trialed . America knows this, and it's why his polling is so favorable . The whole thing has backfired badly for Biden.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    If Trump hadn't committed these crimes, none of these cases would be trialed.

    But you are right. Had Trump not run for President then falsifying campaign funds wouldn't be an issue. If he hadn't run for POTUS then hiding info to protect his campaign would not have been an issue.

    if he hadn't lost the last election he would have never tried to override the election. Or pressure state employees to make up votes for him. Or stolen a truck load of top secret documents.

    You do know Trump has been to court before he ever ran for POTUS?

    How has it backfired on Biden?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭Christy42


    It is very hard to commit campaign finance violations without a campaign alright and indeed it would be a pretty good defense if he managed to get accused of it anyway!

    Similarly sticking someone in court for Jan 6th would have been ridiculous if he never ran for president. Mostly because nothing out of the ordinary would have happened and it would have been either w peaceful continuation or a peaceful transfer of power depending on the results if he didn't run.

    What does Biden have to do with the cases? All I can think of is that he hasn't interceded on Trump's behalf. Do you think a president should interrupt the course of justice.

    It is interesting we are at the stage of "well he broke the law multiple times but we don't feel they are important enough laws to deserve punishment" stage. Interesting stance for the party of law and order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,764 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    You know I mean had he not ran this time round, that Biden would not be using DOJ to try stop him. Even Bill Barr, who is no Trump fan will vote for Trump because of the Democrats using DOJ to try stop Trump, even those who voted for Biden last time out are switching, the whole thing has backfired, American don't stand for Russian style tactics in elections. Ideally Trump is found guilty, it will make the election a slam dunk for him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Thinking crimes should be ignored because the criminal is an important man running for office is the far more Russian aligned thinking.

    Anyway, I think you're completely and utterly wrong on this. I frankly don't believe anyone who would claim this is the reason they are voting for Trump - they are just people who wanted to vote for Trump anyway and are trying to project a veneer of respectability to the decision.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Exactly - There isn't anyone that voted for Biden last time out that is now deciding to vote for Trump because the think he's being "picked on by Big Bully Biden".

    The only people voting for Trump in November are people that voted for Trump in 2020.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Many have been tried for Jan 6th without running for office so this seems made up. As well as the random assumption that this is all under the direction of Biden (shouldn't you have said his handlers given he is meant to be senile or some such?).

    If you want politically motivated case then see the ones against Biden that ended when they couldn't even pretend to themselves he had done anything wrong. Or the many stolen election cases when they point blank refused to ever show any evidence ever.

    Yeah I am sure it took a lot for the guy who worked for Trump to support him. Guess he wants a job again if Trump pulls it off!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,764 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    That's the issue, the general public don't even see the crime, this trial is because he paid a lawyer, and put it down as legal expenses, which seems fair enough, I doubt at the time anyone was thinking this far ahead, it was just a way to label a payment.

    If they really wanted to hide it, there would be no account of it. It's a case of purely trying to get him on something, anything, no matter how frivolous .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Campaign financing is not frivolous. Campaign laws are far too weak as is but they are there to at least try and give a level field. They knew what they were doing.

    You left out what he paid a lawyer for. They knew he paid a lawyer very specifically to help in his campaign, you must have a very low opinion of Trump and anyone who about the payment to think they didn't realise that this was relevant to the campaign.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    If he really wanted to hide a pay-off to a Porn star he slept while his wife was nursing their new-born son he wouldn't have tried to use his company to pay for it , he'd have just paid it himself.

    But because he is a mean tight-arse and doesn't actually have anything like the cashflow he claims to have he tried to both not pay it at all and then tried to hide the payment as something else so he could pay for it through his company.

    All of Trumps legal issues come back to the core points - He's mean , he's not as rich as he claims to be and he thinks he's special so laws don't apply to him.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The prosecution at the trial itself have laid out pretty clearly why this is incorrect. We will just have to await the jury verdict.

    Anyway, this is also only one (and by far the weakest) of the many crimes he is accused of and faces trial for. If he loses the election I think you'll see all of those trials continue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    What evidence do you have that this has backfired on Biden? You keep mentioning it but have provided no details



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Duh. Of course. Had Trump not ran for president, he'd hardly be charged with trying to overturn an election, would he? Never president, so obviously he'd never get with an asses's roar of the White House, so no secret documents at Mar-a Lardo. The same goes for the Stormy Daniels case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,764 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,747 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    It's terrible that there are so many conspiracies and conspirators trying to stop Trump getting a 2nd term as president. It's noticeable that he gets it that he lost the last election with the 45/47 presidential T-shirts. After he offered to debate with Biden and Biden took up the offer with two debates planned, it seems MAGA heads are saying the CNN debate is rigged against Trump. You would think they don't have faith in Trump's ability to win in a debate with Biden….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    But they are far from a disaster for Biden, coupled with the fact we are months away from the election.

    So it's hardly backfired on Biden, unless you think that without the trials Biden would be surging ahead?

    There is no doubt it is galvanising his supporters, but that was already done well before any of the charges were even mentioned.

    The only surprise is that it hasn't tanked his support within the GOP itself. But then the last few days of them lining up outside the courthouse to decry the US justice system shows that regardless of what Trump does they are going to support him.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    The polls for the election have tightened in the last 2 weeks, on average. Check out 538. So it actually gives the opposite story.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,573 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    He must be very confident that he has agreed to two debates on television especially with cnn moderators who won't be in his corner .Will make interesting watching to see how they go .I think one is going out on abc not sure if it's the same moderators .



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I will believe he will partake in those debates when we see him on stage. It's not like he is a man of his word.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,021 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Bill Barr never said that Toby and you know that, pull the other one



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I saw an article yesterday positing the theory that Trump agreed to the June debate to stay out of Jail.

    Typically in NY if you are convicted of a felony you are remanded into Custody right there directly from the court-house and then sentenced some time after.

    So the theory was that by accepting the debate in June , Trump can claim (with a very thin veneer of legitimacy) that jailing him and thereby preventing him from attending the debate would be "Election interference!!!!".

    So they reckon he was doing it to make the Judge not give a custodial sentence to avoid the appearance of election interference.

    It's a thin argument , but then all of Trumps are and you can definitely see his mind working like that..



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