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2 out of 3 young adults living at home

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    #152
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116641#Comment_122116641

    Oh I completely agree. It's why I find the complaints most people have about housing so hollow because the reality is that I think hugely important tracts of the populace, and a majority of the electorate more importantly, don't want it fixed because of what the solution entails.

    It would take a brave, powerful and supremely competent government to ram through the changes to the planning system necessary and, more importantly in many cases, to get the local councils on board. So I'm not hopeful.



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    #153
    tom23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭tom23


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058342625/2-out-of-3-young-adults-living-at-home

    Tell All of them not to worry, when the current crop of IPA doctors, builders and aeronautical engineers get their papers sorted they will solve the housing and health crisis.



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    #154
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116676#Comment_122116676

    Here in the UK, NIMBYism is practically an industry in its own right. I recall seeing one application for a block of flats denied on the basis that it would cast shade over a nearby graveyard. Another I once saw cited destruction of natural habitats. Turned out to be a proposal to build homes on an abandoned airfield.

    I appreciate that people can have valid objections. Governments rarely have one of those traits you mentioned, let alone all three. People who own houses tend to be wealthier and older, two demographics perfectly placed to cause all sorts of problems governments would rather avoid.

    Again in the UK, in 2017, Theresa May attempted to reform the UK's care funding system. She successfully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with her "dementia tax" and the can has once again been kicked down the road.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #155
    DialecticAspirations
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭DialecticAspirations


    I'm sorry to hear this is a significant problem nowadays in Ireland.

    When I left Ireland (2007) it was not yet an issue. Now I'm living in Spain where it is a huge issue, and has been this way a very long time

    https://www.idealista.com/en/news/property-for-rent-in-spain/2022/08/29/81197-why-young-spaniards-take-longer-than-other-europeans-to-leave-home .

    It's obviously a very bad dynamic for a society. You can see the immaturity in a lot of young adults here; they may be working a job in their lates 20s or 30s, but they're still going home to mama y papa at the end of the day and having dinner made for them, clothes washed (and loudly arguing, from what I can hear through the walls of my apartment…).

    I've met several Spanish in the same age range who have worked abroad and then returned - they come across very differently and speak openly about the problem and the difference in maturity between the two cohorts (sorry if anecdotes are not allowed here, I'm still a little confused on that forum rule, and when/how it's enforced).



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    #156
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116713#Comment_122116713

    Again in the UK, in 2017, Theresa May attempted to reform the UK's care funding system. She successfully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with her "dementia tax" and the can has once again been kicked down the road.

    I mean, I actually think this was sound policy - far better that the inflated value of assets is used to treat increasingly expensive end of life care then being a massive bung to a soon to be retired boomer. But once it gets dubbed like that it's game over. Anything that might impact asset value will be rejected by those who have the assets.

    And importantly, those most placentally opposed to new housing tend to be those with the most time on their hands to make a nuisance of themselves.



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    #157
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116738#Comment_122116738

    At the very least, the idea of reforming social care from the current system of dumping people in homes out of the way to be looked after by a slew of people on minimum wage can only be a good thing. The problem is that older demographics will see a threat to their privilege a mile off (aided by the media) and will vote accordingly.

    As for your last point, I once ran for council here in London. The stipend was ten thousand a year with the understanding that I would pass 10% to my party. It is of course impossible for anyone who isn't wealthy and retired to do this job and so that's who ends up running local government which has more direct impact on people's lives than national government. To fix this would mean raising taxes, pissing people off and so on. Another can gets kicked down the road.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #158
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,074 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116789#Comment_122116789

    yes of course there are connections, but not in the way some people think, its largely due to the fundamentals of how we ve been trying to run our economies, in particular our property markets, its now in a state of collapse, and the foreigners are being blamed when in fact its been mainly our own fault….



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    #159
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,265 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116686#Comment_122116686

    … they will emigrate, more like it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #160
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,074 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116905#Comment_122116905

    …is this a full time job for you folks, seriously!

    once again, this has virtually nothing to do about the foreigners coming here at all, our approach to housing has now collapsed, the fundamentals of which have been in place for decades, long before most of these folks showed up, its entirely our own fault

    …the outcome of such polices is scarcity, again particularly in relation to housing, this in turn maintains inflated property prices, its by design, and its clearly a monumental failure…..

    ….blocking or even sending back these folks wont solve the fundamental problem of supply, and serious supply problems is exactly what you get when you pursue these policies for a prolonged period, as has been the case here….



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    #161
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    This argument that the government isn't addressing the housing shortage in order to placate existing house owners is out of touch with reality.

    The government doesn't have the wherewithall to increase construction rates, that's what is actually retarding and limiting construction.

    The construction industry is facing a labor shortage of about 500,000 workers this year.

    The worker shortage is pushing up housing costs amid a national housing shortage. 

    https://www.businessinsider.com/housing-crisis-national-shortage-construction-workers-job-demand-2024-5?op=1



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    #162
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116997#Comment_122116997

    The government doesn't have the wherewithall to increase construction rates, that's what is actually retarding and limiting construction.

    It is part of it (ironically one that can only be fixed in the short term by immigration).

    The delays in planning, and the neutering of proposals to reduce their scale constantly is also a massive factor.

    Also, your article is from the US, but even it doesn't agree with your basic premise

    While the rising cost of housing is in large part a result of restrictive zoning laws and building regulations, the construction worker shortage is also pushing up home costs.



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    #163
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 16,017 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122115612#Comment_122115612

    A lot of cities were forced to build because either the Allies or the Luftwaffe flattened them!

    Here no one of any account really wanted to live in a dirty city centre. Everyone wanted to live in suburbia and the private car was going to be king.



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    #164
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,074 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116997#Comment_122116997

    …our governments persistence towards market based approaches to housing is now in a state of collapse, this is ultimately where our govenments, both current and past, have completely failed……



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    #165
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭blackbox


    The OP says 68% of 18 to 34 year Olds are living with their parents according to the 2022 census. I'm struggling to find equivalent data for 2016, but from what I can see it is not hugely different.

    Can anyone help to get the comparable figures?



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    #166
    SharkMX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116979#Comment_122116979

    That is actually very well put. Its sooooo obvious what the problem is but as usual those in power are too afraid to actually even acknowledge that they see it for fear of getting less likes it has snowballed.

    If you have a sink thats overflowing you turn off the water until you get a bigger sink or you unblock your drain. And only when the problem is solved would you even think about turning the water back on. You dont stand there looking at the taps on full blast.



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    #167
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,074 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117031#Comment_122117031

    …its not, its anti-immigrant bollcoks!



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    #168
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117028#Comment_122117028

    There are arguments to be made here, but ultimately the market would absolutely love to be able to build more housing.



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    #169
    SharkMX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117036#Comment_122117036

    Theres only one person who doesnt seem to understand the cause of the situation the country is in. I think you need to look at your own ability to assess a situation.

    A person seeing an obvious cause of a problem is not a racist.



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    #170
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,314 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117028#Comment_122117028

    Now that is BS.

    Market based housing is not in a state of collapse. There are reasons why not enough houses can be built as needed, they are wide and plentiful reasons. House building collapsed in 2008 because we built to many, too fast and handed out credit like lollipops, those conditions do not exist today.

    Again, as oft said, we have a population at its highest level since pre-famine, we have lots of high paying jobs to two income families who can afford the available housing, we just can’t build houses fast enough for them.



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    #171
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,074 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117050#Comment_122117050

    …we ve been trying this for decades now, and not just here in ireland, pure market based approaches for housing simply dont work, countries that have tried this approach are now all starting to experience the exact same outcome, i.e. serious supply problems, hyper inflated house prices and serious market dysfunctions, i.e. it doesnt work!

    …we have no choice but to go back to more direct state involvement in housing, as countries that have done this, have in fact far more stable housing markets!

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117054#Comment_122117054

    …the fantasy has in fact been that market based approaches provide better outcomes, this is simply untrue, particularly in relation to property!



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    #172
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117073#Comment_122117073

    It is not the market that is blocking the housing though! They are desperate to build.

    Even if the state gets involved it is going to run into the exact same planning problems unless they are somehow able to fundamentally change that system.

    The issue is not who is building, its how easy we make it to build anything in the first place.



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    #173
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117014#Comment_122117014

    Whoops, my bad.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0197036z8o

    I agree about the planning system, It seems to be universally loved even though it's an attrocious hiderance to everything and the source of almost all the official corruption in the country, all the way up to the highest office in the country at times.



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    #174
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117034#Comment_122117034

    The Construction skilled trades numbers were gutted by emmigration following the 2008 financial crash.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0315/1438089-irish-construction-workers/

    If you can find a link supporting the thesis that there isn't actually a shortage in construction and trades, post it.

    The housing construction sector is capacity restricted.



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    #175
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20210190.html

    I wonder how many went?



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    #176
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117073#Comment_122117073

    Whenever a development is scuppered, who does the scuppering?

    A friend is from Cornwall. The things people there hate most are the EU (They voted Brexit despite being beneficiaries), new builds and the fact that young people are leaving in droves. The lack of housing impacts everything, absolutely everything.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #177
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122115582#Comment_122115582

    The young people living at home now with mammy and daddy will want the prices of the houses to decrease. Its ridiculous now.There will be another recession eventually and house prices will drop.

    The world is very unstable at the moment with the wars going on. It could even burn into a much broader conflict. People don't want to think about that but it's in plain sight. That will affect every economy around the world if it happens.



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    #178
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,314 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122118703#Comment_122118703

    Why do people think that if a recession occurs and prices drop, that they will be unaffected and banks will provide them with finance? The last recession taught us that in times of economic uncertainty, credit becomes harder to access, not easier.



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    #179
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,181 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122118703#Comment_122118703

    And how do people pay mortgages without jobs?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #180
    zell12
    Registered Users Posts: 24,357 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122117030#Comment_122117030

    Yeah it's broadly the same

    • Over 61% of 20-24 year olds lived with their parents in 2022, an increase from 54% in 2011 and 59% in 2016.
    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpp3/censusofpopulation2022profile3-householdsfamiliesandchildcare/adultslivingwiththeirparents/
    image.png




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    #181
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Why I personally think that the market won't solve the problem of young people getting houses.

    First (obviously) there are not enough houses, but that's actually good for the market as this drives prices up, there is no incentive for "the market" to kill its own profits.

    Second, new available properties are bought by (another obvious statement!) people with money, that is those who are in good jobs for 10-15 years plus and saved up 60-100K — realistically, this is possible for a tiny proportion of young people (unless you count 40 year olds as young, but that's another topic!).

    "The market" wants to get the maximum profit out of you. Fair enough, but that means that the most profitable scheme would be for you to work and rent from the market, spend all you earn, and not own anything.

    If you want young people to stay in Ireland and work for socially important areas like education, the state should provide them with the means to get their own place to live. That is bring back council housing for working people.



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