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Strange issue with register of electors

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  • 01-05-2024 9:36pm
    #1
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,848 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    My wife has not lived at her parents house for over 20 years, but has just learned that she's been placed back on the register of electors there, and does not know who would have done that.

    The address used is not one the family have ever used, so it definitely is not an old, valid, record that's somehow been resurrected. It's been suggested that a local councillor may have done it (something I've heard happening before).

    She's waiting for her mother to get back to her as to whether a polling card arrived there for her at the recent referendums, which might help narrow down when this was done.

    Anyway, is this common? Has it happened many other people?

    (Not 100% sure if politics is the correct forum for this, it's not specifically a political discussion!)



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    #2
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,134 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Local councillors have not had the ability to add people to the register sans signature for decades.

    If you correct your registration via the online portal it asks you for old records to remove; was that done and someone in the council made a major error and reactivated something that was already gone I wonder?



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    #3
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087401#Comment_122087401

    Similar happened to me and my siblings.local councillor who my late father often canvassed for.



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    #4
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,134 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087440#Comment_122087440

    How long ago, though?

    Pre-online (which needs PPSN), all applications have needed a signature, and a verified one in the case of supplementary registrations, for ages and ages.



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    #5
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,848 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    She had to correct the register about fifteen years ago, same deal, she was readded without her knowledge. We've been living at this address for twelve years which is when she'd have last made any change herself.



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    #6
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    About a decade ago.



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    #7
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,848 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Yeah, it happened a friend's entire family that a local councillor removed them all, but that was twenty five years ago at a rough guess.



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    #8
    GNWoodd
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058349924/strange-issue-with-register-of-electors

    Likely explanation is that the change was requested by an existing councillor. Would be interesting to know if the system has been provided with PPSN and DOB ( which would mean councillor had that info) or was the system overridden to ignore these fields ?



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    #9
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058349924/strange-issue-with-register-of-electors

    A Subject Access Request under GDPR might show what records were used by the Council to add her back in.



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    #10
    Madd002
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Madd002


    My daughter (23) ended up with 2 polling cards & was named on list twice for same address at the recent referendum election. They were shocked nobody noticed.

    I'd say there's no checking going on and it's up to your wife to fix it by contacting them and asking for it to be removed, on the other hand, if you say live in another county she goes by married name it wouldn't make a difference to election count whether she was registered or not as she wouldn't be voting from home and no one else could as you have to show ID.



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    #11
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088005#Comment_122088005

    Having to show id is the exception. Most people aren't asked to show id.



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    #12
    GNWoodd
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122087903#Comment_122087903

    Unlikely.

    Officials were probably just asked to put on OPs wife . No record created.



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    #13
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,848 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Which would raise the question; who asked?



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    #14
    GNWoodd
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    There is very little checking going on as the resources simply aren’t there. Each council has thousands upon thousands of entries on the register.

    The new system introduced in 2022 makes it even more laborious .Every entry made by the individual elector or potential elector has to be manually keyed onto the register. A online portal was a great idea in someone’s head but nobody thought of the work involved.

    ID at the polling station is only checked in 25 per cent of electors , at a max .



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    #15
    RetroEncabulator
    Registered Users Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭RetroEncabulator


    They really need to put some money and resource into an electoral register project to bring the whole thing up to date. It's complicated, but it's only a simple database in reality.

    If there was a proper IT system in place, the registrars in the local authorities would be able to manage it much more effectively.

    It needs a reasonable budget to build a secure system and to maintain it - it's a big treasure trove of data for some hacker, so it needs adequate resourcing to make sure it's both user-friendly for citizens and for the registrars, but also to ensure the data is kept safe.



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    #16
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,848 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's another example of something that should be centralised; what other role do the local authorities have in the voting process? do they manage the hiring of staff to man the polling centres too, for example?

    having several dozen different databases surely increases the chances of personation?



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    #17
    delboythedub
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭delboythedub


    My voting address where I have lived for most of my life has been changed very recently to the house next door???



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    #18
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,848 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    FWIW the local authority which has 'recreated' my wife's record is Fingal CC.



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    #19
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    The electoral register is famously not consistent. That's because there isn't one central register- each local authority has its own register. That's why you sometimes end up with some people getting multiple polling cards to different addresses.

    One of the jobs of the new electoral commission is to centralise this data into a single database. That should eliminate duplicates and generally make our turnout % numbers more accurate. I'm not sure when exactly that work is going to be undertaken but I'd imagine they're still using the old system for this upcoming election.



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    #20
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think it might be time to introduce a national ID system.

    The Pubic Service Card was an attempt to introduce one by stealth that blew up in the Gov's face due to GDPR issues.

    For citizens, there is already a credit card sized passport, so that would be a start, but does not include an address. Driving licence is another possible document that could form a basis. Non-citizens would need to be catered for as well.



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    #21
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,848 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    for tracking voting, surely the already existing PPSN would be enough? were it not for the totally fractured databases.



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    #22
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088227#Comment_122088227

    You may be right, but if so, that raises a whole load of other questions about whether a verbal instruction is sufficient.



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    #23
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What problem would this solve?



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    #24
    GNWoodd
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088234#Comment_122088234

    Your wife’s friendly local politician , probably a sitting one, familiar with the area. Expecting another vote in their favour.



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    #25
    GNWoodd
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122089377#Comment_122089377

    A verbal instruction shouldn’t be sufficient and should never have been accepted by the county council if that was how it came in to them. With the online portal the only instruction should have been the input of the data by the elector or potential elector .
    This issue illustrates the need for politicians to be reined in but that will only happen if you have strong officials who aren’t afraid to do the right thing.



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    #26
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,848 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    not familiar enough with the area if she hasn't lived there in two decades!



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    #27
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,696 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088622#Comment_122088622

    What problem would this solve?



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    #28
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122090213#Comment_122090213

    Certainly the type of issue raised by the OP.

    The Gov certainly saw an issue that the Public Service Card was intended to address, but was ruled out because of GDPR issues. The intention was to have a secure verifiable identity, as secure as a passport.

    Such ID is considered essential in most EU states.



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    #29
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,571 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122090457#Comment_122090457

    Of course they could have passed a proper law to regulate this, but couldn't be bothered and just proceeded without any legal basis, hence the GDPR problem.



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    #30
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122088005#Comment_122088005

    Same happened here ending up with 2 cards, I suspect the register is a complete mess.



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    #31
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122090526#Comment_122090526

    It was not a question of not being bothered.

    I think they did not want to raise the opposition to the idea of a national ID system, wherever they thought that might come from. The PSC was not thought out properly, and it grew legs as different Gov departments tried to hitch themselves on to use it.

    It became a horse designed by a committee - a camel.



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