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World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Files

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Your mistake is seeing this through an ideological "warfare" lens.

    It's a strange and frankly sick way of viewing the medical treatment of children in distress. What I've 'won' through this review it that children suffering with gender confusion will now be treated with the same care and careful consideration that other children are, will have their additional needs and issues considered as contributing factors, will receive evidence-based medical and psychological treatment, and will not be dragged down an irreversible path by a medical establishment in thrall to an activist-derived "affirmation only" model.

    Ultimately, we have the same goal - the proper, holistic care of children in distress. I really do believe that this is what you want.

    The difference is that I accept new, good-quality evidence as it arises. You first check if it aligns with activist demands and your own politics, attacking it along vectors other than content and evidence when it doesn't.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    The only "winners" out of this report and the leaked WPATH files are children.

    Not me, not you — but the actual children who have been let down over too many years. Too many medical professionals have been kowtowing to an extremist rabble of identity zealots; as a consequence of which, the Hippocratic oath was thrown to one side. This report means that a much needed reset can be taken, that medical professionals can actually treat patients from a holistic perspective, without being befouled by the crazed rantings of identity zealots.

    Your positive spin on the Cass Report, that it will lead to an increase in puberty blocker use over time, is to be admired but it's simply untrue. The Cass Report means fewer children, if any, will be given puberty blockers.

    The affirmation model is dead. There is next to no chance of it being resurrected.



  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    In an interview with The Times newspaper, Dr Hilary Cass has today spoken about the personal abuse she has received since publishing the report, and how she has to limit her movement due to security risks.

    Regarding the online abuse she has received, the physician said: "There are some pretty vile emails coming in at the moment.

    "Most of which my team is protecting me from, so I'm not getting to see them."

    She added: "I'm not going on public transport at the moment, following security advice, which is inconvenient."

    Despite that, Cass also says she's much more dismayed at misinformation released about her report, that it puts the lives of children in danger.

    She added: "If you deliberately try to undermine a report that has looked at the evidence of children's healthcare, then that's unforgivable. You are putting children at risk by doing that."

    Utterly vile how she is being targeted in this way.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Ha!

    No-one's stopping that. But you know that.

    What we do want is kids not to be subjected to experimental medicine needlessly, especially ones linked with cancer and infertility, and to be given appropriate treatment for issues such as autism, depression, and so on where relevant (which seems to be very often in these cases). And for people to study these issues without being afraid of using public transport

    You want that too, don't you?



  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    Unfortunately there has been quite a heave against the Cass Report by activists and celebrities alike.

    This, from India Willoughby, downplaying the abuse and security concerns that Cass has been subjected to, is particularly vile. And again, repeating the claim by the poster above that the report aims to "wipe out" people. As well as that, India irrationally claims that the report is unanimously rejected "by the patients", as if that somehow undermines the medical research itself.

    Most importantly, the Cass Report concluded that suicide rates are not improved after puberty blockers are prescribed — contrary to the claims of India Willoughby and other activists in the many years leading up to this report's publication.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,451 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    How many of the girls who say they are trans are in fact lesbian women. Tom boys?

    Influenced by social media, American imported culture etc has made them think they're men?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,716 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Its a common tactic with activists across multiple sites it seems. Drop in and throw around accusations of transphobia and wanting to get rid of trans people and then disappear again, never providing any evidence of these claims. Wait a few more days / weeks then rinse and repeat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Over the last 12 to 18 months I've seen a number of screen grabs taken from lesbian dating apps of "transbian" members, supposedly transwomen, that are still physically intact, but stress they only are interested in actual women.

    And the actual women that decline them for being transwomen, that are still physically intact, are quite simply TERFs or transphobes.

    I also came across a term which perfectly sums up alot of it, yasslighting.

    Essentially, the opposite of gaslighting, whereby people state something, eg, me as a bearded, middle aged, dad body having man, putting on a dress, declaring myself as female, and people telling me how stunning and brave I am.

    It's pure, unadulterated, indoctrination of the vulnerable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    I know that the Gay Men's Network in the UK are releasing their response to the Cass review tomorrow and I believe they are planning to call for an investigation to the ways in which transgender ideology has operated as a form of gay conversion therapy. I suspect The Lesbian Project will do something similar re: girls, but I don't think there's any solid research in this area yet.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,111 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Yep, the people calling the loudest for a conversion therapy ban, were the same people publicly supporting modern conversion therapy.



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  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    Calls for a public inquiry into the medical scandal, signed by over 130 politicians, clinicians, lawyers, social workers, detransitioners, and academics.

    I hope the government go ahead with this public inquiry; it's absolutely essential.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Great to see this isn't losing momentum. Very well-written letter, and some interesting names appended, such as Keira Bell, Sharron Davies and the LGB Alliance.

    Interesting to see where it goes from here, especially with the history of non-compliance and secrecy from trans organisations indicating they know they have plenty to cover up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Bill Maher, who can hardly be accused of being a far right extremist, did a clip about paedophilia in US TV, particularly Nickelodeon and Disney, about a programme called "Quiet on set". He points out how Ron De Santis was called a bigot for accusing Disneyworld Florida of child abuse when many of the very same people were involved in the Disney Channel as well.

    He says there's a real problem with some adults who are so deep in the culture wars about right vs left that they are prepared to ignore paedophilia (he uses a blunter term) if the "wrong" person, ie Ron De Santis, is calling it out.

    The link with transgender healthcare is from about 5'30 on, where he explains that telling six year olds that they might be a different gender to their biological sex is indoctrinating them, because children believe what adults tell them.

    And this is after having done another one a couple of weeks ago about Canada where he mentioned the teacher who identified as a woman with ZZ-size (fake, natch) breasts "Kayla" Lemieux - and that the problem is not even really with the person as with the fact that the school board supported them in such inappropriate behaviour when in charge of minors.

    I know Bill Maher is quite daring in his take-downs, unlike most celebs, but I think to see it repeated like this is indicative that there has been a sea change in attitudes.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,433 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    Sharron Davies is front and foremost in the fight against natal men participating in female sports for which she has been pilloried.

    Unimaginable a mere few years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Bill Maher, who can hardly be accused of being a far right extremist

    This sort of presupposes that these people ever have a valid reason when they accuse the people they accuse of being far right extremists. They don't. It's a reflexive response to realising they've found themselves in an argument they have no ammunition for, because they didn't arrive at their opinions through any sort of critical thought process. Like all cult thinking, trying to make an argument is seen as a heretical departure. It's accusations of bigotry all the way down.

    There are pros and cons. The main pro is that it is so obviously farcical to scream that the likes of Hillary Cass and JK Rowling are alt-right Nazi bigots that it helps the opponents of gender ideology tremendously when they burst the membrane of their bubble screaming the sort of nonsense that's commonplace within it. The main con is that progressive types have so abused the social stigma that comes along with accusations of bigotry that the accusations have lost much of their (useful) power, and now it is much harder to tell who's actually proposing terrible things and who's just today's 24-hour hate figure for hitting up against a dogmatic diktat of the totalising secular religion that progressivism has become. At least without doing more additional research than most people are prepared to do. For a while, that birthed the societal monster that was "cancel culture" - but that's dying back now and "boy who cried wolf" apathy is beginning to set in, so some pretty awful people manage to get a pass. Which should concern anyone who's in favour of equality and the tenets of classical liberalism (individual autonomy, freedom of speech, economic freedom, etc.) more broadly.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    BBC R4's "More or Less", a segment that digs into the stats behind the week's news stories, debunks the "Cass rejected all the evidence" TRA talking point.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hry4wj

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭gym_imposter




  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    Gay Men's Network responded with the line, "Puberty is a gay right", which given that 80-90% of children affected are either gay or bisexual, this is a very effective and accurate conclusion.

    They too are calling for a statutory inquiry into the matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭political analyst


    https://nypost.com/2022/06/18/detransitioned-teens-explain-why-they-regret-changing-genders/

    One of the detransitioners in the article above is Chloe Cole, who says she still struggles with bodily and facial hair. Can biological females who have detransitioned take oestrogen supplements to stop the hair growing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I don't think it's as simple as that. Hair growth will probably diminish once someone stops taking extra testosterone, but not stop completely. And you can't just take extra oestrogen to have a greater effect: oestrogen itself is not a harmless substance: I take HRT supplements (for menopause, because my oestrogen levels have dropped) but I have to be careful to always associate that with progesterone to reduce the increased risk of uterine or breast cancer from the oestrogen. So a younger woman with normal oestrogen levels would be increasing her risk of breast cancer massively if she took extra oestroegen to outweigh the months or years on testosterone. That's a massive risk just to reduce facial hair growth.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    Labour MP Dawn Butler repeated the propagandistic lie last week that the Cass Report did not include all necessary research papers, that a lot were left out.

    Butler has now admitted that what she said last week in the House of Commons was complete misinformation, after having a conversation with Dr Cass over the weekend.

    I think Butler is to be at least applauded for saying she got it wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    I hope she gets called out on the fact that she started out supposedly to correct the misinformation she gave based on inaccurate information she got from STONEWALL, but then went on to say that the people doing the misleading were anti trans activists.
    Not a word of blame for Stonewall who put her in the position of having to apologise for lying to parliament in the first place.

    How exactly were these “anti trans” groups to blame for that?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    I think that add-on defence was said only to save face with activist groups.

    Give with one hand, take with another — kind of approach. A politician being a politician, in other words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    It shows just how difficult it will be for all those public figures who’ve been at the forefront of “trans rights” to row back on their position.

    So many of them were “all in” on what must have seemed like an easy PC win to them.

    I honestly wonder how much longer and more complicated it would have been to go against the force of “No debate” and “it’s the SAME as gay rights a generation ago” without Joanne Rowling. Look at how even a beloved star like Graham Linehan was crushed by cancel culture because despite his fame he still needed to continue working. Unlike Rowling.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    Most keen supporters have either gone completely silent, probably out of embarrassment and shame — or who express the need to now "politely debate" the story.

    This, from the same people who — as you correctly say — were the first to say "no debate" when people's lives were actively being ruined. Not just children, but very many brave whistle-blowers.

    They are complicit in what has happened over these years, but they now seek to reframe themselves as faux moderates.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    All of which is actually a good summary of a fairly scathing article in the Telegraph today. It's a sad reflection on human nature that this probably wouldn't have been printed two weeks ago (I mean, apart from the references to Cass obviously)

    I feel the easier it is to call out this nonsense for what it is, the quicker word will get around. It's like that emperor's new clothes.

    Next step has to be to get it out of schools I think.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/04/23/suzanne-moore-cass-review-report-cult/



  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    Get this out to schools as fast as possible — immediately, in fact.

    No more children should be afflicted by extreme ideological nonsense.

    This isn't about anti-anyone; it's about protecting children from needless harm.

    Adults who are more interested about protecting an ideology that makes them feel better — which invariably is often the case — at the expense of harm to children, should be treated with the deepest of suspicion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭plodder


    This is one of the best articles I've seen, all the more that it's in the Guardian.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/26/cass-review-gender-identity-services-report

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ Anton Gifted Marlin


    Just read the article now. It is very well-balanced and evidential.

    It concisely puts to bed all the misinformation and outright lies about the Cass Report and, more pressingly, how clinicians — such as the author himself, a decades-experienced psychiatrist — have had to work within a climate of fear and intimidation.

    What an utterly shameful episode in medical history, the number of children's lives permanently destroyed for absolutely no good reason.

    In light of this report and the WPATH files themselves, I personally consider anyone who continues to push this "treatment" pathway onto children to be nothing short of evil.



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  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That article says far more about Bells well known biases than it does about the Cass report. The "poor me" bit is very telling.



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