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This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,219 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Agreed. Although they would have to up their trade in prices though to lure people into upgrading.

    So, if you're in the market to buy, target private sale prices for used Model 3 (base model) something like this now?

    192 €18k

    201/202 €20k

    211/212 MIC €23k

    221/222 MIC €25k

    231 MIC €28k

    232 MIC €30k



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Might be a target alright but I’m not aware of any 192 cars for €18k?

    If anything, 5 years old, they should be cheaper. 50% after 3 years. Maybe 40% value after 5?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭User1998


    To be fair, you said something similar about the Model Y price drop too but it was an even wilder claim. You said that all used EV’s have just lost thousands over night. In fact, you even claimed that all petrol & diesel cars have lost thousands of euro in value. It simply doesn’t work that way. A 5 year old car will loose very little just because the brand new version had a couple of thousand knocked off the price. It takes months to trickle down and by the time it reaches a 5 year old car it may only be a few hundred euros of a price reduction.

    If you can find me an €18k Model 3 in the next month, I will personally give you €19k for it😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,219 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    The value loss happened overnight, but indeed it takes months for it to trickle down and for everyone to become aware. I remember a few anecdotal sales of Model 3 after the initial price drop of Model Y and wondered why they sold so high, only to realise that the person buying it was probably unaware of the price drop (and the person selling probably unwilling to reduce their price expectation). Unlike they teach you micro economics, in real life a price equilibrium is far from a perfect market

    Agreed with you though the older the EV, the less impact it has. But a 232 Model 3 realistically did lose several thousand of its value since yesterday.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭User1998


    100% agree that a 2023 has lost thousands, but as you say it will take a while for people to realise and for prices to adjust, some sellers will get lucky and some buyers will be caught out



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Surely if the market is dead, bargains should be appearing regularly ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,310 ✭✭✭positron


    As long as Chinese cars are not trade-blocked, there is only way for the prices to go, and that's not up. Tesla is at least trying to complete. A lot of the European brands on the other hand…



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,219 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    That electric Amarok dropped again from €12k initially, was €9.8k for the last few weeks, now €7k asking. If you rocked up with €5k cash, the seller might be tempted to accept. If I needed a truck, I would be tempted myself.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/modifiedcars-for-sale/volkswagen-amarok-ev/36408349



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    Jaysus that's an interesting yoke! as a second car it could be fun



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    €5k on that could be interesting. If I was in between cars I’d be well into that!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,219 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Yeah and the financial risk is fairly limited as you should easily be able to sell the Toyota inverter for about €500, the Ioniq pack for about €2k and the on board charger for about €500 and another €500 for the zombieverter board and other bits



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,457 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    New so ones are now 38k…



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,457 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    new ones are now 38k… had to justify paying the prices people are looking for. Expecting just 33% depreciation in 5 years is a bit much



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,355 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    While the price drops for new EVs is fantastic for the market overall, I wonder is a factor for consumers in overall uptake.

    Could the model 3 drop again?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28 Iwantone


    I could see Musk offering 0% Interest depending on how well the 3 is selling. The car market is at a standstill compared to the crazy Tesla growth days.

    On secondhand M3’s, 19 SR’s are selling for 22k ‘ish, they should be 16-17K

    Lads are advertising ‘21 Model 3 LFP’s for 30-32k, they should be priced at €25K max.

    Prepare to see lots of used 3’s on the market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    I was looking to buy very recently and could only find '19 Model 3s coming anywhere close to early 20's. For the spec, year etc. I ended up going with a far newer ID.3. Yes software issues - but pros and cons worked out better. People are expecting far too much for used Model 3s, but maybe also others are still paying that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,857 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    They're not. Because they aren't shifting in any meaningful way at the prices



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    So you think the sellers aren't in any rush and just holding to see if they get a good price to move?

    I shifted a 231 Model 3 back in January and got 35K for it from a dealer. I thought I did pretty well for that at the time considering Highlands were due to dock the next week. I may have gotten a grand or two more if I'd pushed but any more and you're into new car territory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,792 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I suspect there will be another hit on private values when the first M3 RWD LFP start getting returned on PCP deals. You know, the ones based on 55k sales value.

    My own is ending next year and the GFMV is 26k. I'll be handing that back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,857 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    You were fortunate. The data is the reality

    Don't confuse fortunate with the market



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    The Model 3 becomes pretty much irresistible new purchase now if the form factor suits. It's definitely the bargain of the year in new cars. Our almost 3 year old Model 3 has cost two sets of wiper blades and one set of cabin filters in service costs in 75k. Apart from that just one set of tyres and then washer fluid topups have been required. For repairs one of the rear light clusters had to be replaced under warranty. And as it's really energy efficient the running costs are low.

    The price of the new LR has gone down by 8k since 2021 so if we were to sell today it would be an additional in cost, but the way things are we are not in a hurry :-) I can't think any other car I'd like to replace it with. The car still looks pretty much as new both inside and outside, and in general, this car has been the easiest car to we have ever had to live with so we just keep on driving it.

    If the previous owners decide to sell, an used 2021 LR gets a thumbs up from me at, I reckon, high 20s as an alternative to the upgraded version now at 50k.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Another 2017 Ioniq under 10k. 90k miles, in black. I'm in no major panic at the moment, so just keeping an eye on things to see if they keep moving downwards. Always had a 10k Ioniq in mind, so might look at this guy if it's still around when I'm up in Dublin next week for a work thing.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/ioniq-1-owner-irish-car-full-hyundai-history/36738624



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,857 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    This was up last week, with the SOUTH COUNTY dublin in title



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭kanuseeme


    a model 3 in china is 30000 euro new, id4 77kw 27200 euro new,

    If they can make a profit in china at those prices, I bet there is still a little bit of wiggle room left.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,792 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Less amortization of regulatory costs in China I'd guess, plus building them there is cheaper than in Germany. (Our few hundred cars are the exception, the vast majority of EU cars are built in Germany). I'd say they probably make more money selling a china made car in china, than a german made car in the EU, but that's only a hunch.

    Meanwhile another day another tesla price drop. They aren't learning what Ford learned in the late 40's in the US. The most important purchase is not the first, but the second and onwards. Once you get someone in the door, you can keep them for life as a customer if they buy 2-3 cars in a row. That's how you make money. Customer acquisition is much more expensive than retention. I think someone has their eye off the ball in Tesla. Unless there's a severe glut of cars somewhere that they can't sell at current prices, they shouldnt be dropping prices, they should be banking the margin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    What Tesla has created in my case is a car for life, i.e. I can't see any circumstance where it would make sense not to just keep on driving the currently owned copy of a Model 3. It will eventually be relegated as the "banger" (a car frequently marked in the carparks by others) when it can't do what it currently does, i.e. drive long distances that the other car leaf can't do.

    The Irish market is special in the way the cars are graded based on the digits on the numberplate and this combined with large number cars financed privately on PCP has created a monster where there will be many cars handed back after the term at bargain money. The same cars are then marked up, and the 2nd owners are very likely to be fleeced as well. However, for savvy customers this has created a window of opportunity to bargain hard for the PCP returns that are not selling that are filling up the fields. Those are the only real bargains, i.e. cars that have practically halved in price in 3 years but still have maybe 80% of their usable life left. I think a Model 3 definitely falls in this group.

    And for the PCP: In my opinion it would make lots of sense to just pay the lump sum and just keep on driving. You have already paid a huge money and are now selling a hardly used car well under what a sane market price should be. But it only makes sense for the cars that are well designed and don't frustrate their owner with crappy software and wheels falling off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,857 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    IIronically Various problematic software updates across their range and a vehicle that sticks the driver into acceleration to it's top speed and holding on to it's accelerator pedal.

    There's no manufacturers immune to issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,792 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The car for life is less profitable than the new car every 18-48 months type. Ford found this out in the late 40's. The reg plate in Ireland is unique, yes, but the cycle exists in the rest of Europe and the US too. Even in places where theres no year on the plate.

    After everyone buys an EV for life, that doesnt need servicing, what does tesla sell then?

    I 100% won't be paying that balloon. I'll be handing the car back, and that's only if I can't hand it back with zero owing before then. Remember that I paid 10k deposit for the car initially, and the taxpayer paid 5k, that 15k is now gone. Luckily the interest rate on the PCP was low (3% approx from memory) so arguably with inflation it was zero percent borrowing costs. I don't want a car for life. I currently own 7 cars and like to swap, buy and sell a lot. This is the longest I've held a car for in some time, and it's only because of the stupid price drops. Because I haven't been able to sell, there is one second hand EV not available for someone to buy (an EV bargain?), so they may have to buy an ICE. Thanks for that butterfly effect Elon!



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I toyed with the idea of upgrading my March 2020 Model 3 SR+ about 18 months ago when a new one was €54k and Tesla had offered me €44k trade in for my one… but didn't and then all hell broke loose, and I reckon at best I'd maybe get €25k for it private at a push… so because of that there's absolutely no point in upgrading it and our intention is to keep it for as long as it lasts.. it's on just shy of 92,000, and still as good at the day it was new… (and it was made in Fremont!!).

    it was just bonkers that after 2.5 years and 67,000km, Tesla were offering me €44k for a car I bought off them for €49k.. but even then we just couldn't justify the hassle of changing!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    I have a colleague with a high mile Model S which he will not sell because of the free charging.

    With no servicing needed and efficiency of about 13kWh per 100km a new well sorted Model 3 standard range is getting to be the sort of car that you just keep because you get little benefit from changing.

    Note also that the owners of the small EVs like the Twingo and e-Up! absolutely love them from an ownership perspective.

    I have one Colleague who bemoaned losing his Twingo because somebody drove in to it and wrote it off and he can't currentlz replace it like for like. It did everything expected of it with no drama.



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