Metrolink south of Charlemont

Upgrading the Green Line between Charlemont and Sandyford to Metro will have to be done in one go, piecemeal would cause more disruption.

If Metrolink is extended south, a new route for Luas north of Sandyford would be needed. Going east to the N11 and then north would make sense but I don't see where it could go from Donnybrook bus garage. All the roads are narrow and lined with driveways so not suitable, not to mention the local residents who would be less than supportive.

This was studied in 2018 as part of the Metrolonk scoping activities. During an upgrade, the Green line will have to be split into two disconnected sections, north and south of Ranelagh, for three years, and during that period there will be also be nine month stretch when there will be no service of any kind between Ranelagh and Sandyford. When the works are complete, Ranelagh will lose its station.

Current usage projections say this won't be needed for another 10 years.

Apologies, that was my bad phrasing. Ranelagh is the only station on Green Line that won't transfer over to Metro; it will keep its Luas stop, but that stop will become the terminus of the Northern stretch of the Luas Green line. The report is here : https://www.metrolink.ie/en/news/published-reports/constructability-report-green-line-closure-2019/

Ranelagh is the last elevated station on the line, but the Metrolink Charlemont stop is underground and Beechwood (next below Ranelagh) is at surface, although the Metrolink station will be a little further south: the tunnel portal would be roughly where the current Beechwood station sits. Most importantly, Dunville Avenue crosses the Green line just North of the current Beechwood station, and Metrolink can't have level crossings.

So including Ranelagh in Metrolink would have meant a steep climb out of the tunnel, raising the height of the railway south of Ranelagh, a rail bridge over Dunville Ave (good luck with the planning on that one!) and then building up Beechwood to meet that new level. None of that is cheap or easy.

The lines mainly serve people within walking distance of a stop, about 3km. Then most expensive part of tunneling is the tunneling machine and starting to tunnel. The initial plans were take the Green Line out of action for about 3-4 years to convert it over to carry the metro. In my view they should continue the tunnel at Charlemont and run the tunnel along a different route (eg N11, a few km the other side of the Luas line etc) to give better public transport access to more people. Keep the Green Luas as it. They should be adding more lines to make public transport feasible to more people.

That was the original plan as the metro was driverless. All crossings along the Green Line were to be closed, and a number of pedestrian under/overpass added.

There's almost no way to extend Green from Beechwood without needing lots of CPO, so it might be better to leave that as a terminus. In that scenario, the Sandyford section is free to come north via a new route : I think through Kilmacud, up Stillorgan Rd, skirt the UCD campus, and cross the canal at the bottom of Baggot St before setting west to Adelaide Rd and join the existing Green there.

That would leave Harcourt-Beechwood as a spur on Green Line that serves Ranelagh and provides Interchange with Metrolink.

It’s more than 200m at Donnybrook.

The junction at Donnybrook Garage and Donnybrook Church is a mess, and getting worse with the new lights.

It’s then extremely tight all the way through Donnybrook (including that tight bend at the Garda station). Some retail parking could be taken beyond that alright, along with some front gardens, but expensive (as mentioned).

I’d argue it is basically the entire section up to and over Leeson Street bridge. Basically the whole section that slows down buses as is*.

Anglesea Road is not a runner.

Outside of tunnelling, the only other option I can see is going down Nutley Lane and somehow navigating the corner onto the Merrion Road before moving through Ballsbridge and up either Pembroke Road onto Baggot or Northumberland Road onto Mount Street. Advantage here of linking with Vincent’s Hospital and the DART at Sydney Parade. Disadvantage of missing Donnybrook but also that I’d expect nearly as many issues as the Donnybrook stretch.

I think the only way is some kind of tunnel (s), either straight through Donnybrook and down the Adelaide Rd to link with the existing Green Line or something that potentially cuts across Herbert Park and up either of the two (Pembroke/Baggot or Northumberland/Mount St) access to the city core. I think the mess of a junction will need to be tackled regardless so you way as well put a traffic tunnel under the junction over to Anglesea Rd.

If Donnybrook hadn’t been one of the areas people most wanted to live in when this country was truly a backwater then there is no question it would have fallen victim to the DCC road traffic engineers. It is an absolute mess.

* as an aside this is one of the reasons why I laugh at people who go on about how amazing the Stillorgan QBC is, it’s great until traffic from the much deeper South East Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford narrows 3km from the city centre with some of the busiest destinations (like the RDS) along the way….

This has been discussed before.

It is not an either or, as the post 2042 plans calls for both.

I again though disagree with the characterisation of the South East of Dublin.

It is a far deeper area. The distance from St Stephens Green to Marley Park is about 8.5km. After that is fields and the mountains. That is the same as from SSG to Brewery Rd (where some have suggested the Luas should turn down from Sandyford). Beyond this you have KM after KM of neighbourhoods including Sandyford all the way out to Bray. The N11 itself feeds in from two motorways and traffic all the way from Wicklow and Wexford.

Yes there is two rail lines but: the DART half covers the sea, unlike the North Coast DART that cuts far more inland. Much of the population growth of the southside is being loaded into Cherrywood and along the N11 corridor. Cherrywood itself is overloading the Luas Green line. UCD is as close to the Luas or DART as Terenure is to the Luas, ditto heaps of places in the SE, not sure why this is brought up. We talk about the QBC but actually look at the travel times, the Stillorgan QBC is exalted largely because it was one of the first ones.

I’d also say again that there is a range of “places of interest” that the South West does. The South West has golf courses and leafy roads.

.. the Adelaide Rd routing was my own suggestion earlier. It would also get you a Luas stop just off the end of Baggott Street.

Nothing wrong with a tram network having stubs, forks and branches if it also has shared links and loops : that way new services can be delivered without having to lay new tracks.

One of the benefits of Metrolink covering a similar spine as the Green Line in the city core is that we can look at new Luas lines like the 3Arena to Sandyford. Or Broombridge to the 3Arena.

We can also add in really small line increases, 1km or 2km east and west of College Green and expand services.

I think we’ll start seeing ideas around this once Metrolink is started. A lot of the potential of the Luas has been left on the shelf deliberately as they try to get ML to get underway.

The KM distance we have for Luas really isn’t too bad, it’s just doing a hell of a heavy lifting at the moment on spines.

How do you propose getting the soil out if the tunnel is in use? It is the soil removal route for the tbm.

Once it stops, it's a new project and needs to be tunneled in from a new launch site.

Build a cut and cover line under the canal to Grand Canal Dock and across the river to Docklands and connect it to Charlemont.