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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The system doesn't degrade one team that has a lot of natural advantages. Maybe it should, but the ultimate outcome of all this is that people want the talent at Leinster distributed more broadly which is a tale as old as time. Otherwise what do you think a different funding model would achieve or look like?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Just because De Allende and RGS were paid by a benefactor doesnt take away from the reality of signing RWC winners while now complaining about another province signing RWC winners. Mental gymnastics at its finest [sic]

    It kind of does when the whole premise of the argument (or atleast my argument) was about the financial inequality between the provinces caused specifically by the IRFU.

    As I said above, I wouldn't have been too pushed if Leinster signed an NIQ THP. It's not like I'm saying "Leinster should be barred from ever signing NIQs". Synman and Barrett are a bit ridiculous though.

    If these were positions where Leinster were deficient, then I wouldn't have a foot to stand on (as you have well pointed out re: Munster's centres)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    He's been a really great servant to Leinster. 177 appearances and still only 29.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    In fairness, it's a bit facile to essentially say "we've been filling this huge stadium in our back yard with wealthy local punters for big European knockout games for years, why can't you guys just do the same?". That would rub me the wrong way as a fan of a less wealthy, less successful province without easy access to a big arena.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Di Allende joined Munster for two years and RG Snyman joined for four years. Six years of salaries.

    Leinster are getting RG Snyman for one-year and Barrett for six months. 18 months of salaries.

    Which do you think cost more? There's a financial inequality in those two examples but not in the way you think.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Do people think Jordie Barrett won a world cup or am I misreading some comments?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    I'd imagine the one which the IRFU actually paid for is the one which cost the IRFU more. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




  • Administrators Posts: 53,459 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    But what would this data prove?

    1. Leinster have the best, and most expensive squad in Irish rugby, which allows them to go further in competitions, and therefore bring in more money.
    2. Due to benefits of geography, Leinster have the national stadium at their disposal, literally on the doorstep of their home ground. They can easily shift games there for big incomes on big ticket games.

    So of course Leinster's income is going to trump everyone else's .Again, money brings in more money. All these stats would prove is that the system is self perpetuating.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    wealthy local punters 

    ?? Pricing the tickets at an extremely affordable level is one of the main reasons the Aviva gets good crowds.

    less wealthy, less successful province without easy access to a big arena.

    Munster have sold out Pairc Ui Chaoimh twice in the last 18 months for random games that no other province* is allowed to run, and another one is lined up for Thomond in the autumn.

    *source; Gerry Thornley



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    But we're talking about financial inequality more broadly here so surely we're not picking and choosing which revenue streams we're talking about.

    Because I remember people up in arms when external funding was needed to keep Johnny Sexton (Denis O'Brien) and Jamie Heaslip (Bank of Ireland) at Leinster.

    But its not relevant when Munster do it, got it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Leinster played against an international team less than twelve months ago :P



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




  • Administrators Posts: 53,459 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The system isn't perfect and is never going to make everyone happy , but it's what we've got and in terms of a Country with less than 200 Professional players it's working overall

    It's working well overall for Leinster and Ireland, let's be clear on that. But this is enough to make those KPIs on David Nucifora's spreadsheet in D4 go green, so I imagine he's patting himself on the back for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,382 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Out of interest, and in good faith, can you point me to that Gerry Thornley quote?

    Ulster used to have the likes of Australia playing touring matches, and watching Munster get these money spinners in, I've been wondering why there haven't been any up here. If money really Ulster's current key issue (caused by poor management), I'd have thought that a couple of games like that would have been scheduled.

    (I also understand that that plastic pitch is able to accommodate concerts.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭redmca2


    What's the squad going to South Africa, have I missed it?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Ignore, wrong thread

    Post edited by pickarooney on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    My bad, it was in fact Tony Leen in d'Examiner;

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40946060.html

    Munster – the only Irish province with a licence to host international touring sides - are holding off announcing the fixture until the GAA’s Ard Comhairle approves use of the Cork stadium for November 10.

    This always lodged in my head because "licence" is such an odd word to use there, like it's not a legal licence, it can only mean permission from IRFU.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    That's a certain viewpoint for sure.

    I'd submit an alternative question - Do you think we have the overall resources to have 3 or 4 very strong squads, each capable of competing at the business end of both URC and CC every year (or even most years) ?

    And if we don't (and I think we don't) then which is better in terms of the financial and rugby health of the game in Ireland - 1 strong team that can compete consistently at the very highest level and 3 others that can continue to develop players and compete at URC level and sometimes CC level OR 4 middling squads each with 4/5 Top end players that aren't quite good enough to get to the Semi-final/Final stages on a regular basis?

    Not saying that this is the conscious planning of the IRFU but there are finite resources available and you can choose to spread them evenly across the 4 teams for the sake of "equality" or you can allow them to coalesce in 1 team giving you strength in the knock-out stages of all competitions.

    National demographics mean that the majority of players and money is in Leinster so do you leave them there or have some kind of Rugby "decentralisation" program that ultimately benefits no one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,382 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    FFS

    (Responding to FFF's post)



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    The practical differences with how it impacts Ireland are essentially zero. The practical differences with how it impacts the Provinces are not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭moonshy2022


    wrong forum.

    I know this seems to be the home for a lot of Munster supporters at the moment judging by their incessant posting over the last 24hrs.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    D'oh! Had the wrong thread open.



  • Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭moonshy2022


    I find it quite funny and a little sad that so many people are pointing and crying at how unfair life is while simultaneously clutching on to their 2 World Cup winning NIQs, a New Zealander and a Frenchman.

    In fairness in a little over a years time Leinster will have neither of those players. Which is ironic considering Munster had one of them for 4 years. I guess it’s only unfair when someone else is doing it. Also which team has been more successful in the last few years……that again would be Munster, or has that trophy already been forgotten as well. Remember success is measured in trophies not in “most amount of semi final appearances”.




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Munster don't have two Irish international centres in their side, Leinster do (three, with Frawley, and Osbourne will probably make it four at some point). If there's a question of fairness, it's about adding a luxury, world-class player on top of that pile when it's absolutely not needed whereas there is a desperate need for players like a LH prop or hooker in Munster, a FH in Ulster or gestures vaguely in Connacht.

    It's a **** and giggles contract that wasn't apparently an option for anyone else.

    That's ignoring teams spunking their NIQ-wads on crocks, homebodies and the most unusually-shaped wide-man in world rugby.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Leinster have the best, and most expensive squad in Irish rugby, which allows them to go further in competitions, and therefore bring in more money.

    Which, again, basically just boils down to shifting Leinster players around the other provinces. Because they didn't assemble the most expensive squad out of nowhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,764 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    That's ignoring teams spunking their NIQ-wads on crocks, homebodies and the most unusually-shaped wide-man in world rugby.

    Thats a cracking line! Love it!

    What is (and Who) is the homebodie? And the most unusually shaped wide-man is Kok I presume?

    edit: I think he'll be primarily playing fullback



  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭baas baa


    So one of the best players in the world wants to spend a 6 month sabbatical at Leinster for personal and professional reasons and Leinster or the IRFU are supposed to say no, is that what people are arguing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    You forgot to add that assumedly Leinster will be freeing up some or all of the cash for said 6 month sabbatical from Charlie Ngatai and Michael Ala'alatoa moving on (absent of anyone else coming in).



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Leinster didn't even want him, he just kind of said he was coming, couldn't find an AirBnB and Cullen was just brought up to be a gracious host.



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