Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

You forgot Jean de Villiers, Doug Howlett, Rua Tipoki,Christian Cullen,Lifeimi Mafi, Gary Connolly , Brian Carney , Sam Tuitipou ,Jim Williams, John Langford though the latter was way back in the mists of time. So yea I think our southern brothers who are moaning about us signing JB on a short term deal need to look back over their own previous history. A lot of the above were signed during the Munster heyday also.

IMO Barrett and Snyman have been signed because of cotton wooling of potential Lions tourists come business end of next season.

Now for a top class NIQ tight head to complete the team even just to hear the jealous comments.

The accusations of buying trophies have started but the Academy produced 18 of the 23 last Saturday so f*** the begrudgers.

Nice post in a respectful manner made there. I would say as a long time Leinster fan that Leinster are now a self fulfilling prophecy. Talent breeds success which breeds money which breeds more talent.

My friend works for Siemens in Germany. He says the company ethos is to grow Siemens by 2-3% per year every year, that’s the last 20 years at Leinster. Now it’s time to reap the rewards.

1 caveat to ur point also is what goes up must come down and make no mistake about it there will come a time when there will be lean years for Leinster. I don’t know when that will be but it will happen. I hope some of the Leinster fans gloating online slagging of their provincial brothers will be just as vocal defending their province when the lean times come but I suspect their support will fade away then. I would love to see the other provinces have a bit more success but I suspect it’s a long way off at the Champions Cup level.

I think the story has grown legs but ultimately all that’s happening is Leinster are replacing 3 NIQs with 3 NIQs in the same positions. That’s assuming a tighthead is also added. Now to be fair the 2 announcements are upgrades on the player they are replacing. I don’t think though that this is some move that pushes Leinster over the top into some sort of super team that will smite all around with the their laser eyes, it should just push them on a bit.

Hang on. Appreciate this was a 1am post but the point about "Leinster rarely sign big names" is not a red herring, it was a direct rebuttal of a claim that Leinster do indeed sign lots of big names and this is the reason for our success.

I understand that Ulster fans are angry, but there's a reality to be faced here. You can take digs at me like "All of this waffle about "other provinces need to develop more players" is so ludicrous," - it's not ludicrous, this is the cold hard fact of the Irish rugby system.

From where I'm sitting, the IRFU is doing all it can to help Ulster within the confines of the current system. Maybe I missed the bit in your post where you acknowledge how much it must have cost to get Kitshoff over here, or Vermeulen, Coetzee or Piutau, the most expensive signing ever to rock up here, among a cast of thousands of other imports. That these guys have - mostly - turned out to be pretty underwhelming signings isn't the fault of anyone in the IRFU.

All of your points about the "advantages" Leinster have are fair, what's not fair is your abuse of us Leinster fans for claiming that we don't have these advantages or pretending that every province can follow the same model. No one has claimed either of these things so it's you who is throwing red herrings around.

But what's the solution? Based on the problems you have identified, there are three options;

1. Give the same number of central contracts to each province - then you'll have mediocre guys getting them while genuine stars don't, based purely on geography, which sort of defeats the purpose. A rubbish player doesn't become a legend overnight because his contract is printed on a different headed paper.
2. Distribute the players on central contracts evenly around the provinces - not a great way to keep your star players happy, which again defeats the purpose of keeping your key talent happy and in Ireland.
3. Keep plugging away, try to develop indigenous talent better and top it up with signings - i.e. the status quo.

Like it or not, option 3 is the only one that stands up to any scrutiny. There just isn't an alternative without junking the entire system and starting again with some sort of regional franchise system. Next Welsh guy you see, ask him how that's working for them.

People need to relax a bit here. Barrett is coming for six months. He's coming because he has a sabbatical, he spent time in Leinster as a kid, and maybe he wants a shot at picking up silverware while he's on his holidays. This isn't an extension of the dominance of the evil empire, he'll be gone before we know it.

Personally, whilst I'll be glued to Barrett's debut when it happens, I'd be far more pleased if Leinster went out and identified a proper out and out winger who was 21-24 years old and they could mould into the team similar to how far Lowe has come in the last 5 years.

Once upon a time, Connacht had signed a deal for a 21 year old Sevu Reece which they pulled the plug on. I'd be fully on board if Leinster sought to develop a replacement for Lowe in such a manner (who isn't a thug).

It's hard to identify where the significant gaps are in the Leinster 23 but a 15/12 type player isn't really the spot. There's going to be a gap at tighthead next season and there's a potential drop off in wing play coming down the line in the next 2-3 seasons. There's also a big gap at scrum half looming large but, given that is applicable to the national team also, I'd imagine they'd find it difficult to get approval from the IRFU for someone in that position.

Ideally, if we're to replace the 3 NIQ players, I'd have wanted something along the lines of:

Jenkins contract goes to Snyman

Ala'alatoa's contract goes to Neethling Fouché (Stormers tighthead who rotates in and out with Malherbe and is their sometime captain).

Ngatai's contract goes to a young back three player who can be developed. There are well regarded players in NZ who would fit the bill that are breaking into the Super Rugby teams but might have to wait several years to be in the conversation for a NZ call up and fancy a change of scenery.

Rocky. Best niq signing ever. Pretty much won the HC on his own that year.

Have mixed feelings about the JB signing, but I think it could be excellent for the upcoming out halves, having a world class player at 12 for guidance, drive, and support could be great for their development

Davit Niniashvili is the player you're looking for here. IS a superstar in top14 but has zero big name recognition anywhere else. Not a player we would be able to keep long term unfortunately.

Jesus Christ this is some statement

Yes, we've made mistakes with signings, it's our fault but it's also the IRFUs. They sign off on whoever we sign, they are ultimately the money men.

Managing to shift some blame to the irfu on making poor signings. They back you to sign a World Cup winner and somehow when it doesn’t work out the irfu should shoulder some blame. This is mental gymnastics of the highest order.

I think more needs to be done to divy up the central contracts a bit more evenly. I'm not saying give them to lesser players at the other provinces but there should be strong incentive to encourage the central contract players to move. We're a tiny country, geographically speaking, so it's not a big ask imo.

I think the current model is going to see a bigger and more permanent gap appear between leinster and the other provinces and that's not good for Irish rugby in the long run.

I'm not fully sure what the other provinces want though - sure No Snyman or Barrett, but they were complaining long before those two were signed.

It's not so much the signings as the root cause to make these signings viable.

Yes, part of the reason Leinster can afford them is because of home attendances in the knock-out stages. But a large part of the reason is also because the IRFU are paying the wages of 9 guys who play in those knock-out games.

And as far as I can make out, the number of central contracts is the most skewed it's ever been.

I've seen complaints about Leinster keeping their second string players, but who would Munster/Ulster actually want? Frawley is the only one they don't turn their nose up at. We often see complaints about Leinster having so many back rows, but I don't see teams jumping for Penny or Deegan either.

There are a good number of players who the other provinces would want. I'm not saying they should move, or even be leaned on my the IRFU to move, but it's just not accurate to say Frawley is the only one the other Provinces don't turn their noses up at.

Do they want the IRFU to start moving Leinster starters around now too?

No. I haven't seen anybody suggest as much.

I'd be perfectly fine if Leinster didn't sign the two NIQ players, but after that I'm not really sure what changes can be made beyond that.

I'm not sure either. But there absolutely is a large imbalance that has been trending that way for awhile and seems to be growing.

The reality is that we've signed Jordie Barrett on a six month deal to replace an outgoing Kiwi so whilst hell have a positive impact, he's not going to materially improve the team 

That's the point tho; if Jordie Barrett isn't going to materially improve the team, that as much as anything speaks of the imbalance in the system at the moment.