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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 895 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    Enough to overwhelm Ukraine air defense's. Don't take my word, take the Ukrainians - they are the ones saying it and seeing the effects.

    I also noted that you didn't dispute my figures.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    and where pray tell would all those tens of millions of people go?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,346 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    It was a long hard struggle when Churchill was kissing American ass to persuade them to come to Europe's aid during WW2. Had the Americans later decided that they were pulling any help they would never have been repaid for all the lend-lease and other funding. Whatever funds have so far been put on Ukraine's tab will never get repaid as a new Russian backed regime in Kyiv will wave two fingers at Washington and any other countries invested in this.

    The West will be fooked if the Americans don't pull the finger out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    You stated the west wasn't ramping up AA production, they have and are as shown in the figures. I see you also ignored the IRIS-T and NASSAM production. You still fail to give the Russian figures about their ramp up.

    Don't confuse Russia stockpiling missiles and drones for mass attacks as a sign of Russia being able to produce 20 drones and 20 missiles a day.

    If Russia overwhelmed Ukrainian air defence it's down most likely to a lack of systems and not missiles. Hence why Ukraine again are asking for more systems.

    We've seen this before a few months ago from a banned user. Russia attacked Ukraine and Ukraine only shot down about 20% of the drones. That user said it was a sign of Ukraine running out of missiles. The next week Ukraine shot down about 80%. The west hardly ramped up 400% production in a month.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭rogber


    Depressing, enraging, and Europe and the US don't seem to care much now

    Well Europe better prepare for millions more refugees if this continues



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    That film was a bit ahead of its time with the baddie.

    To be blunt it's not just the Russian industry you have to worry about. Iranian drones and North Korean artillery, together with potentially missiles from both sources. Uncomfortable choices for decision makers. Protect your infrastructure from missiles or your front-lines from glide bombs.



  • Site Banned Posts: 899 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    Paywalled

    MEPs have urged intelligence services to publish the names of who was paid by Russia, while pointing fingers at the EU's far right.

    Two French liberal MEPs led the calls for culprits' names in a plenary debate in Brussels late on Wednesday (10 April).

    "We demand the names, the numbers, who was paid, which party, by which intermediary, for which objective, and how much," said Valérie Hayer.

    Nathalie Loiseau said: "the [intelligence] services must make public what they know" before the European Parliament elections in June.

    "People have a right to know if they are voting for honest candidates or bought candidates," she said.

    "That elected representatives accepted money from a hostile foreign power is just something else and I'm disgusted," Loiseau added.

    Hayer had called for the debate on Russian interference following revelations by Czech and Polish intelligence services on 27 March that MEPs and MEP-candidates had been paid by Russia to spread propaganda.

    The intermediary was allegedly a pro-Russian website based in Prague called Voice of Europe and run by a pro-Kremlin oligarch.

    The sums were "tens of thousands of euros", the Czechs and Poles said, but they did not say who was paid, pending further investigations.

    "We will not publish further details for now," BIS, the Czech domestic intelligence agency, told EUobserver.

    A contact from another EU country's spy service, which is also taking part in the counterintelligence probe, said: "The intelligence services in the Czech Republic and Poland have communicated about this in public ... other services involved prefer not to communicate on this topic".

    Hayer and Loiseau's calls to name names were echoed by centre-right, centre-left, and green MEPs from around Europe on Wednesday.

    And suspicion has centred round far-right EU deputies who gave interviews to Voice of Europe, some of whom were present at the debate.

    "[Russian president Vladimir] Putin has found links at the heart of our institution, starting with far-right deputies and national leaders, who call themselves nationalists, pretend to defend their countries, but in reality work for a hostile foreign tyranny," said French socialist Raphaël Glucksmann.

    Glucksmann also called out social-media firm X and its owner Elon Musk for continuing to host Voice of Europe content, despite the Czech accusation.

    Czech liberal MEP Dita Charanzová said other EU states should follow Prague's example in taking Voice of Europe videos offline.

    Czech green Markéta Gregorová said knowing that intelligence services were monitoring Russian pay-offs to MEPs made her feel "calmer".

    But she added "we don't need the Voice of Europe or ID MEPs to show us we have a big effing problem" in terms of Russian hybrid warfare, referring to the far-right Identity and Democracy (ID) group in the EU Parliament.

    Two of those who gave interviews to Voice of Europe, but who haven't been accused of taking Russian money, also took the floor to clear their names on Wednesday.

    Spanish far-right Vox MEP Hermann Tertsch said former conservative and socialist German chancellors had done more to advance Russian interests in the EU than any far-right MEPs.

    He also said the leftwing Spanish government helped Russia via its close ties with Russian allies Cuba and Venezuela.

    "I've spent 20 years working and 40 years writing against Putin," Tertsch said.

    Marcel de Graaff, an independent Dutch MEP, accused the EU of "violation of Christian rights", via its support of Covid vaccines and abortion.

    But he said "any criticism [of the EU] is demonised," indicating that his links to Voice of Europe were being used as slurs against him.

    The Czech EU values commissioner, Věra Jourová, told MEPs she would crack down on online platforms that spread Russian lies, but said espionage or corruption allegations were matters for individual member states.

    MEPs also called for an internal investigation into the Russia revelations, but the EU Parliament can do little beyond imposing a fine on deputies who did not declare payments from third parties.

    The parliament found, also on Wednesday, that Latvian MEP Tatjana Ždanoka had breached its code of conduct on declaring income and gifts, following accusations she had worked with Russian spies.

    But Ždanoka's only sanction was to pay a €1,750 fine, the Politico website reported.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 895 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    Let's ban Zelenkski. He is clearly a Russian troll.

    I should have been clearer in my wording. The ramp up of AA missiles in the west is nowhere near what is required for a war with Russia. The ramp up in production of artillery shells is also no where near enough. If it was, then Ukraine wouldn't be begging for them on a daily basis.

    Anyway I will leave this echo chamber for while. Impossible to have discussion without the usual Russian troll barbs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,286 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Time to flatten Crimea Bridge



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Think they might have been why the likes of Macron and some of the closer members of NATO were raising the possibilities of Western troops. A very downbeat intelligence outlook may have been circulated.

    As regards the Bridge into Crimea, it isn't as important as it was in the past. The Russian have developed a southern route through Mariupol for supplying their forces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭Guffy


    .....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I don't think it was ever all that important regarding the southern front, but there was great symbolic value in terms of tying Crimea to the Russian Federation, so to destroy that would send a huge message and perhaps enrage Putin to the point of making some rather rash and unwise wartime decisions.

    Its total destruction is still something I would not at all mind seeing so long as Ukraine was prepared for whatever volley Putin was likely to throw back (short of nuclear or chemical).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,807 ✭✭✭threeball


    The US have an uncanny knack of finding themselves on the wrong side of history

    Late to the party in WWII

    Vietnam War

    Korean War

    WMD in Iraq

    Rise of ISIS

    Abandoning the Kurds

    Countless regime changes that went to sh1t

    Support for Israel in any circumstances

    Its hard to fathom how a country with such a large intelligence reach and so called policeman of the world can get almost every single foreign foray so wrong, so consistently. Its almost like there is a internal requirement to self destruct and pick the absolute worst course of action in every scenario.



  • Site Banned Posts: 899 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    I don't agree with that at all the USA will like every other country put it's self first regardless of the outcome for others. Anyway this thread is for russia related discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    Their choices for next president show how far they have fallen in a short space of time. One guy is a convicted sex offender and the other a supporter of genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭scottser


    In fairness, its taken for granted that the US will back Israel no matter what the circumstances. If Trump was president he would be unapologetic in his support of Netenbastard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Think that is part of why the Israelis have been so heavy handed. Regardless of the election they will have US support.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,235 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    I think the fundamentals of russias economy, demographics, culture are not good. I think without taking Ukraine, russia as an empire will die. They need Ukraine’s natural resources, children, farm land, trade routes etc. russia cannot sustain a forever war. The west needs to arm Ukraine to the teeth. russia must lose and quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It seems, at this point, the only thing that will save Ukraine is for the west to close the skies. That is a minimum. Russia has a huge amount of these glide bombs and if only 1% gets through it will be enough to take out the main power stations. Something radical has to be done to tilt the balance. Maybe Ukraine should go all out and destroy the oil refineries and power stations of Russia.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,235 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    those gigantic glide bombs seem like a game changer, unfortunately. If America doesn’t pass that bill very soon we are going to see Ukraine turned to rubble.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,185 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Was it mentioned somewhere that the power station strikes were done with glide bombs? I only saw "guided bombs", I think.

    Also those bigger ones they can't very well carry on fighter planes, not sure how much use they're going to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    The power plant strike was seemingly done with a X/KH 69 missile. So cruise missile according to several sources.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,235 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    Very worrying times, things haven’t looked so bad since the initial invasion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    The same russia that got itself involved in by starting possibly the stupidest war ever.

    A war in which every outcome is terrible for Russia and Russians



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    The (esp. European) weapons manufacturing may need to scale up, but I think there's enough of both all right to be going on with, just they are in US military stockpiles. Biden did say the US would support Ukraine as "long as it takes" afair…ah well.

    I may be misunderstanding situation in the US, but without Congress budgeting it/passing laws, I don't think that Biden can crack any more shells, Patriot missiles, or extra launchers out for Ukraine unless he decides to order US military to intervene in Ukraine against Russia or something! I don't think he can even sell them to Europeans to give to Ukraine (?) (because they are US military weapons).

    Seem like the US flakiness/nuttiness and their internal political warfare leaking into the foreign policy (it used to be mostly immune from that) has f-cked Ukraine and Europe at the moment, hopefully Ukraine can hang on.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,890 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Yes, the US messed up by getting involved a little bit late in WW2.

    Meanwhile, the Russians got involved early… with a plan to carve up Europe between themselves and the Nazis, only becoming good guys in the conflict when the Nazis turned on them.

    In a world where no great power is clean of blood on their hands, does anyone want to stand up and say that Russia is more on the right side of history, or do they just want to continue being weaselly little trolls trying to plant thought worms without basis?



This discussion has been closed.
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