Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036939#Comment_122036939

I suppose we should admire the tenacity of our latest "neutral". Still here posting obvious Russian propaganda, when most of his comrades had run for it or been banned by now.

And we do get comedy gold like "Propaganda only works for so long. Especially when it's really crappy propaganda." from someone who's been telling us that an army that is literally stealing other countries citizens and forcing them to fight is "standing proud".

Excellent value all round. Extra potato for you. Next week.

doyle55

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1781205023978049998

Big news if this supersonic bomber was shot down with long - range missile?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036939#Comment_122036939

Still reading from the same script. My question would be; if funding for Ukraine makes little difference to Russia's ability to prosecute this war, why does their spin never shut up about it? Ditto for sanctions.

zerosquared

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-any-new-colonial-us-aid-ukraine-wont-change-frontline-situation-2024-04-18/#:~:text=MOSCOW%2C%20April%2018%20(Reuters),which%20enriched%20the%20United%20States.

” MOSCOW, April 18 (Reuters) - The Kremlin said on Thursday that any new U.S. military aid for Ukraine would not change the situation at the front where Kyiv's forces were in a poor position and cast such aid as part of a "colonial" policy which enriched the United States.“

The spin offensive has begun! Quick someone point out the colonial aid from North Korea to its Northern Korean colony

threeball

I have one issue with the seized Russian assets being used to bankroll the war effort and its to do with the inflated prices the Americans have been placing on the equipment they have been providing. I would say conservatively its being valued at least 10x more than what its worth, in many cases its a cost saving i.e. the cluster bombs. So are we heading into a situation where the main arms provider is going to make a profit from supporting this war and provide far less gear than what the seized assets could purchase if priced correctly. OK if they're getting the latest and greatest, but if they're buying army surplus and decommissioning stock then the cost should reflect that.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037134#Comment_122037134

Well they would say that wouldn't they? Even though they've been trying hard to stop the same funding, shouting about it whenever and wherever they could.

Though for Russia, the last of the old European empires still standing that colonised east all the way to the Pacific, retaining most of her borders from when they literally called themselves the Russian Empire and currently in the middle of a murderous expansionist war, to call anyone colonial is a self awareness free irony of the highest order.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037142#Comment_122037142

I agree, though the hard realities of profit will certainly come into it. That's another aspect of this US funding that the Republican naysayers are missing, deliberately or otherwise; it's going to enrich quite a few of them. A few of the same naysayers are politicians in US states that actually build this military kit, so you'd think more cash and jobs being ploughed into their local economies would be welcomed.

zerosquared

Some countries like Denmark are directly funding weapons purchases from Ukrainian companies, and others like Germany are building factories there and offering air defences said facilities

https://kyivindependent.com/denmark-first-to-buy-weapons-for-ukraine-from-ukrainian-manufacturer-in-deal-worth-28-5-million/

The link i posted on previous page goes into quite a bit of detail about exactly what’s in the bill, for example funding for 2 million new shells from US factories, direct funding for salaries of soldiers on frontlines and gems such as “Biden must promptly deliver long range ATACMS”

Also since we are well into 2024 a lot of the equipment and ammo would flood in quickly and in space of few months, and if there is anything that US military excels in is logistics, once this passes the ball should be started rolling on 2025 funding

Poon Tang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037123#Comment_122037123

Russian spin has about as much relevance as the western variety. May I enquire as to why you're consuming Russian propaganda?

If you're interested, I recently discovered the Oliver Stone interviews with Putin are available on audible, with an English voice dubbed over. It's obviously before this SMO kicked off, but you might find it interesting. I tried watching them at the time, but I find subtitles rather irritating.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037062#Comment_122037062

Wowe much good news today

Had to double take when I seen this headline

Donald Trump says Ukraine's survival is important to US

By Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/world/donald-trump-says-ukraines-survival-is-important-us-2024-04-18/

edit: another double take

https://twitter.com/Mike_Pence/status/1780918607012081879

edit x2: 🤓

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_224873.htm

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037299#Comment_122037299

What great news to wake up to!

I wouldn't trust a word trump and co say about Ukraine. They'll obviously show a little support for Ukraine when this half arsed aid bill passes otherwise they look bad.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037418#Comment_122037418

I don’t trust the republicans either and we best not count the chickens before tomorrows (unprecedented Saturday) vote

Politically it seems Trump got pushed over by that Moscow agent Margerie, he hates women challenging him and their spat is getting ever more public

https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/trump-mike-johnson-marjorie-taylor-greene-rcna147699

Who knows maybe hopefully fingers crossed we get a Ukraine bill and Margerie gets pushed out too, as politically going against Trump is a death sentence for republicans

Poon Tang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037418#Comment_122037418

Why do you say it's half arsed? $60 billion is a lot of money.

I would have more hope of Trump getting some sort of deal done to end this conflict, than someone like Biden who really doesn't look too interested in a negotiated settlement / peace deal etc. At least Trump appears to be open minded to doing something different, only time will tell if that is genuine.

Someone will have to step in and broker peace, unless we want this thing to rumble on for many years… or Ukraine suffering a catastrophic military defeat due to lack of funding / manpower.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037574#Comment_122037574

It's hard to broker peace unless the Ukranians are on board with that. Part of the negotiations will be how much Ukranian territory Russia gets to control. Not an easy discussion. We can write off the notion that Ukrane will get everything back in negotiations.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037574#Comment_122037574

Trump doing something different? This is the same Trump who already tried to sell out Ukraine once when they wouldn't go along with an utterly false smear campaign on his political rivals?

Anybody who genuinely cares about the fate of Ukraine, or peace in Europe, would not want Trump to have any say in its future.

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037054#Comment_122037054

Speaking of potatoes, if Argentina joins NATO and other western countries like South Korea, Japan, Australia follow suit we can endup with NATO being replaced by POTATO 😆

Pacific Ocean and TransAtlantic Treaty Organisation

Jokes aside i kinda feel sorry for how much effort these guys put in trying to paint Russia as harmless and not in any way shape or form an aggressive colonial empire which started largest war in Europe since the first iteration of fascists experimented with same ideology, only to be undone by latest shipment of Italian wine to the Kremlin

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russia-threatens-unleash-entire-arsenal-175940269.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGjNbQdU_MnRK6tRHXc06yeNCXSjViQAt-vXvKQs97I1eNREAuUEct0hQFyDmhwMazmELgQjpaLOkyk2N9TX1I7z5TbmG0lMjIR5Ha4uym4Qy9NEk5-O_oTNJDorpdwiKTvI3X_XAvf8_xu5HJYWcSXAEzS8XX2bmj1EmVvz8ZaE&_guc_consent_skip=1713516798

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037286#Comment_122037286

Russian spin has about as much relevance as the western variety. May I enquire as to why you're consuming Russian propaganda?

Clumsy really. Consuming suggests eating it up. I read/listen to it. Like any propaganda including Ukraine's it can be informative on a few levels; what they're hoping, thinking and believing, what they want their own people and observers to hope, think and believe and what they're actually concerned about. In the latter case if propaganda repeatedly and loudly claims "X or Y makes no difference and we're not concerned" you can take it to the bank it does and they are.

If you're interested, I recently discovered the Oliver Stone interviews with Putin are available on audible, with an English voice dubbed over. It's obviously before this SMO kicked off, but you might find it interesting. I tried watching them at the time, but I find subtitles rather irritating.

I watched the series a few years ago. Pre covid anyway. It was interesting to see what Putin believes/wants to be believed unencumbered by a passive interviewer* who gave him free reign with zero follow up or harder questioning. In that sense it was more a one man party political broadcast than an interview. Putin came across more strongly than in the recent Tucker piece which was at times bizarre. The half hour potted history stuff which at times read like he was smoking pot a high point. And a missed opportunity for Putin. He could have(and was expected to) use Tucker to reach some Western groups eager to lap up his strong man/conservative spiel, but instead he seemed to be almost entirely aiming at an already believing home crowd.

*I've a lot of time for Stone as a writer/director, Salvador being one of my fave flics, but he's also a man who can't easily pass up a conspiracy, particularly of the 1960's lefty US student deep state kind. He'd likely say he's not an interviewer and he was just recording and observing his subject, and I'd buy that actually, but…

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036939#Comment_122036939

1. American military aid directly benefits the US economy. You know this, so stop being obtuse.
2. The Republicans are only interested in electoral success, not common sense policies that benefit all American citizens. If it was politically expedient to back Ukraine, they would do it. You know this, so stop being obtuse.
3. Ukraine would be an invaluable member of the EU due its vast natural resources and food production capabilities. You know this, so stop being obtuse
4. The only one swallowing up crappy propaganda around here is you.

Sunny Disposition

If people genuinely believe surrender is in the best interests of Ukraine or the western world they are uninformed or have been fooled by the propaganda. Utter nonsense.

Also the view that Russia is in some way misunderstood is utter sh!te. It is an evil regime, the country is a dictatorship, where independent media and protest is banned.

It just has to be defeated. Ideally its leadership would also be overthrown, the country does not have a legitimate Government.

SoapMcTavish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037574#Comment_122037574

"Someone will have to step in and broker peace"

How about putin steps in, and pulls your ruSSIan army out of another sovereign state ?

Sunny Disposition

https://apnews.com/article/germany-russia-spying-sabotage-ukraine-arrests-927490085e244ba72d84e4a374ee198b

They are planning to attack EU/NATO countries, have already carried murdered people in the UK, they really need to be stopped. Really, providing support to Ukraine is a really painless way of self help for the western world.

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037703#Comment_122037703

I'd agree with you, mostly, on Stone (particularly on Salvador). It does seem to me though, that he's spent too much time getting high without someone willing to tell him "Don't be daft, Oliver" (see also: don't be daft Roger) and has developed quite a lot of out there ideas.
Interviewing Putin was a misstep, imo, in that Putin was already a serial murderer and war criminal at that point and shouldn't be given these soft opportunities to spread his propaganda.

Sephiroth_dude

Mod

I deleted some posts quoting a thread banned user. Please don't respond to them, just report them, thanks.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037574#Comment_122037574

Handing over territories just cause a nation chooses to invade them has historically not gone well. On top of that, you've got the issue of genocide which hasn't gone away and left Russia with the knowledge that they can expand. Trump would happily give up all of Ukraine imho.

jmreire

Meanwhile believe it or not…..Truth or deliberate misinformation to block US aid to Ukraine?

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1781244469766922515

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037969#Comment_122037969

let’s step back for a minute

It’s not in Bidens (or Trumps) power or authority to handover a fifth of another country and condemn millions of citizens of a country they do not represent to a certain death and genocide, at worst they might not support it with aid but that’s hard to do when same men have to be elected by populations who see daily on their tv screens the atrocities that Russians commit which leads to representatives in Congress and EU and UK parliaments ordering something to be done

The fact that the poster believes that this is even a possibility at exposes their cynical Russian propaganda warped world view where Ukraine is not a country and Ukrainians are not people, a world where great powers (something that Russia certainly is not) slice up the world into spheres of influence like its the 19th century with hand drawn lines on a map

Putin fantasises about himself being a sort of Stalin carving up the world at a Yalta conference 2.0 but he is closer to Saddam and Gaddafi in the outcome he will meet

aidanodr

EXCELLENT - @TimothyDSnyder schools @RepMTG on the facts of russian fascism. Have a listen

https://twitter.com/DecolonialFeIIa/status/1781040130972692688

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038038#Comment_122038038

Hopefully the Biden campaign retweets that to a much wider audience. Brilliant. And the patronising disdain for Greene the icing on the cake.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037123#Comment_122037123

Methinks the lady doth protest too much

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038091#Comment_122038091

Hopefully this amendment passes

“ A U.S. lawmaker has mocked Marjorie Taylor Greene by adding an amendment to the Ukraine aid bill requiring that she be appointed "Vladimir Putin’s Special Envoy to the United States Congress."“

She better watch what tea she drinks as her antics (that look like to have pissed off both Trump and speaker) might yet lose the vote for her master in Kremlin