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Foynes Line

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Are they installing it as a single line, or twin? That N69 underpass in Dronehawk's video looks very narrow, so I'm assuming single



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Yes, single line. Although some of the 19th Century overbridges may be for double track: such optimism was widespread in those days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    it is currently handling containers, exports of contaminated soil from Roche in Clarecastle to Northern Netherlands/Germany for treatment.. But this is a dedicated project cargo service until the decommissioning is complete..

    Otherwise Foynes doesn’t handle containers and is unlikely to any time soon..



  • Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    thks, so while totally in favour of rail and shifting to that mode from road, what is the actual business case for this freight rail link - just asking, as I understand apart from timber it doesn’t really exist here?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    No business case. A whimsical political decision.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The core ports (of which Foynes is one) need to be connected to rail under EU regulations. It's not a whimsical political decision.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Economics101


    So an EU regulation says you have to connect "core ports" to the rail system. Apart from this being a nonsense regulation (if true, which I doubt), what about Ringaskiddy?

    Seriously, if I had €100m to blow on rail projects in the Limerick area, I would (a) fix the Ballycar flodding scandal, (b) put in a crossing loop at Sixmilebridge on the rather congested Limerick-Ennis line, and ( c) use whatever is left over to re-double some or all of Killonan to Limerick Junction.

    I suppose it would take the powers that be several years and several millions of € on consultancy reports to figure this out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    there is a clause on the TEN-T that a rail connection is only required where possible, MTL/ South bank in Dublin and Ringaskiddy would be two examples

    Here’s an extract from a reply from DoT made about rail connections to Dublin port and airport..

    Maritimeports of the core network indicated in Part 2 of Annex II shall be connected with the railway and road and, where possible, inland waterway transport infrastructure of the trans-European transport network by 31 2 December 2030, except where physical constraints prevent such connection.. The full message is in this thread: https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/15876-dublin-airport-rail-connectivity/

    Pallas green lead/zinc is the most likely traffic, but not guaranteed it will happen, especially given the current low zinc prices



  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭ArcadiaJunction


    Let me get this correct? This line is being reopen and there is no customers for it other than a mine that might or might not open. Am I reading this correctly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Other business opportunities include:

    Bulk grain/animal feed, with Portlaoise Gain feeds a likely destination.. This ran by rail in the 90s/2000s

    Molasses, there is a major import terminal for Molasses in Foynes.. Again this moved by rail in the 90s/2000s

    Fertiliser, Gouldings of Askeaton is a major importer/producer of Fertiliser.. Again this moved by rail in the 90s/2000s to co-ops and railheads around the county including Farranfore, Ennis and Ballina.. However Fertiliser use has reduced since that time due to environmental policies

    All of these flows would need new rolling stock to be ordered and loading/unloading facilities to be established which in the absence of grant funding may make the flows unviable



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭maebee


    We visited the Foynes Flying Boat museum yesterday, which is excellent. They really should promote it better. It's a real gem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Hibernicis




  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Auld Slapper


    of course it is a whimsical political decision, EU is lobbied 1000s of times annually by member states to amend regulations that are deemed unsuitable, the natura directive was slashed and burned because of lobbying.

    Personally think this expense is outrageous given the size the island, expert reports all the way up to the minister's office state that rail cannot compete with trucks inside 300km, the only part of the island outside 300km is the Giants Causeway.

    The initial 105m is only for phase 1 of the expenditure, such as rail bridges etc. phase 2 is the signalling and the automated gates of which there are more than 40 across the line, some of these automated crossing can cost upwards of 2m so we're about to spend imo north of 200m to reopen a line that cannot compete with our road network



  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭ArcadiaJunction


    All the traffic you mention is historic and served industries that are long gone. The mine is speculation too.

    So other than 'Imagination Land Railfreight' there is no, none, nada, zilch traffic for this railway.

    I am turly stunned by this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the line is opening.

    no amount of complaining is going to change it.

    it's happening.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    deleted

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭ArcadiaJunction


    who is complaining? I want to see the line reopened and in use. But I got news for you. If this reopens and there is nothing but a few trainspotters on a choochoo day out the media with have a field day point out the "hundreds of millions wasted on a rail line with no trains!" and this will greatly - if not - fatally impact upon future investment in all rail all over the country.

    Right now I am more worried than complining about this shocking revelation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    all the companies involved still are in existence and still move product just by road..

    Gain feeds in Portlaoise

    Premier Molasses in Foynes, Paul and Vincent in Edgeworthstown and Kieran milling in Granard

    Gouldings in Askeaton..

    Having actually been involved in rail freight in this country, you seem to also be ignoring the fact that without the line opening it is very hard to canvas for business for it to carry..

    The Roche soil exports are a perfect example, rail was assessed about 3 years ago by one of the operators tendering for the contract, to move the containers from Ennis to a Port.. In the end Foynes was chosen as the port but the lack of a rail connection means it is all going to move by road



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the days of media screaching having any effect on rail investment are gone.

    phaze one of the wrc was supposed to damage rail investment, in the end it didn't.

    the game has changed.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Auld Slapper


    If you think Roche will truck the sealed containers from clare castle to the train station load it and roll it on rail 65 km to the Port with the new motor way in situ I have a bridge to sell you



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    and yet rail is competing perfectly well with trucks within 300km as it is hence it sounds like these expert reports are discredited.

    the game is changing, trucks being driven for minimum wage is no longer viable and ultimately rail will be playing a bigger roll going forward in freight movements.

    how big that roll will get, who knows, but a bigger roll it will play.

    anyway, a credible case to reopen the line to foynes has been shown, proven and accepted. if there was no case it would not be reopened.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    with the shortage of truck drivers likely to get worse then you might in some cases shipping stuff a short distance to a railhead may become more common as it will allow more shorter movements and greater efficiency with the resources available.

    it won't happen in every case but it may very well happen more.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    it was given a good tyre kicking at the time, to the extent I was consulted about rolling stock availability and gauge clearance on the Ennis line..

    Rail is ideal for this kind of traffic as it gets it off roads and away from the public.. There were similar projects in the past including asbestos from both lanesboro and Bellacorrick power stations to Dublin port..A block train running 6 times a week back and forward shouldn’t be a big reach for IE to support projects like this one but unfortunately is given the chronic under investment in rail freight in this country..

    One needs only look at Roches own history( Seveso and the missing drums) to see why operations like the Clare castle demolition are treated with the highest level of import, and why cost isn’t always the driving factor.. A quick look at the projects website is a Good illustration of this



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Auld Slapper


    where is it going less than 300km? Ballina to Wexford is more than 300km. McKinsey were commissioned by Brussels to write a report on how to reduce congestion around the big ports in Europe and rail was one of the solutions, there isn't a paragraph on rail less than 300km, rather it reports on 300-500 km and above 500km. The CEO of Dublin port said recently they do less than 1% on rail and half of that was Tara mines, there just isn't demand according to him which is in line with the McKinsey report



  • Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    all existing freight flows, so Ballina to Dublin and Ballina to Waterford(both timber and containers)

    The 300km figure is based on a consultants report, doesn’t mean it’s true in the real world..

    Also fairly sure you are referring to the now former CEO of Dublin port who was anti-rail



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Auld Slapper


    the 300km figure is simple economics, time, distance and cost of two competing industries, not exactly something that can't be measured accurately. Know nothing about the politics of the former CEO, 1% is 1% regardless of your likes and dislikes



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the report along with your claims have been discredited as i can bet if you look hard enough you will find flows very much within the 300km as there is a world outside ireland.

    rail freight will be increasing that is a given, by how much who knows but increasing it will be.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    economics are going to change for some flows as poor wages for driving trucks is coming to an end hence price increases for movements.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 Auld Slapper


    so the solution is to spend hundreds of millions of euro on rail by government because there there is wage disequilibrium in the private sector???? How about just pay them more until we reach equilibrium



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