Foynes Line

whisky_galore

Where is the "business case" for roads?

Economics101

To a huge extent, the viabiity of railfreight depends on the how rail and road are treated in terms of taxes and subsidies. Access charges to the rail network are apparently very high in Ireland, and the annual road tax on HGVs is relatively low (it was reduced a few years ago thanks to lobbying). As carbon taxes kick in, this will hit the costs of road vehicles more then rail (even with diesel locos).

There needs to be a review of these issues, in order to establish a level playing field.

It should have been done before the Foynes project started, but even at this stage it would be fundamental in establishing the scope for rail freight from both an environmental and economic perspective.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966216#Comment_121966216

Large road schemes have a cost/benefit analysis; not having an income stream makes having a business case as such irrelevant - they're always going to 'lose' money in that regard.

Auld Slapper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966186#Comment_121966186

foynes port is never going to achieve the numbers they have predicted, look at the increase in traffic that roslare has done since Brexit. 6 ships per day has turned into 36, they are queuing up to dock there, yeah we foynes is a deep water port but they are living in dream land, commercial decisions have gone with Wexford and as they say the customer is always right

Auld Slapper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966261#Comment_121966261

diesel won't be an issue in the near future, it's probable to that drivers won't be an issue in the medium term.

https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/news-stories/press-releases/2023/may/volvo-trucks-tests-hydrogen-powered-electric-trucks-on-public-roads.html

andrewfaulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966379#Comment_121966379

Foynes and Rosslare serve two very different markets, Foynes is “dirty” bulk and fuel/Oil, Rosslare is RO/RO including containers and trade cars, with small occasional bulk loads of logs.. Project cargo is probably the only area where they overlap/compete directly

Comparing apples to pears a bit there

andrewfaulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966455#Comment_121966455

The lack of cheap green hydrogen is a massive brake on hydrogen being rolled out.. Much easier and more efficient to move freight on electrictrified railways.. Let’s not forget LNG being the next fuel in haulage about 5 years ago, turned out to be a dead end..

And as for AI, if it can’t work in California with wide boulevards and blue skies, it has no hope on the N5 In horizontal rain

Auld Slapper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966892#Comment_121966892

green hydrogen's problem isn't really availability. There's a company in ballina amongst a plethora within Europe which is seperating the O from the H2 to make medical oxygen and the outcome is H from which they are producing green hydrogen. Rather more is its complicated storage and transport. The pressure required is vastly more than say natural gas so the pipes need to need to be replaced with far more robust pipes. If there's a green will then this surely is the silver bullet where investment has to be focused on.

WRT the current AI I agree it's not ready but that day isn't far off and what will be the end game for the motorist is when its robustness is confirmed by Gov we the people will be uninsurable overnight. The outcomes from that are incredible. Start buying the halfway houses now!

andrewfaulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967489#Comment_121967489

I’m well aware of the situation around hydrogen infrastructure but that company in Ballina don’t seem to be actually producing the stuff, just building the wind farms to provide power at the moment which is a slow process.. Also, changing to hydrogen doesn’t strengthen the case for more trucks at the expense of rail freight.. Rail in this country burns about 30% less fuel on a typical journey from Dublin to Ballina, and can also be converted to operate on Hydrogen as a fuel.. In fact, it is probably going to be easier to convert a loco to run on hydrogen(IE already working on one) than a truck, as weight is less of an issue in a rail application.. Longer trains with the arrival on new air braked rolling stock is likely to lead to longer trains on the network also, with a further reduction in rails fuel burn

Grassy Knoll

while great to see Foynes being reopened on one level, genuinely hard to see realistically what the freight to traverse it will be? This was a pure political decision, if there is a business case, cigarette packet comes to mind.

The other option is to locate something there to haul freight to … an incinerator, the amount of trucks from around the country hauling waste to Dublin to Poolbeg for ‘thermal treatment’ is very notable, could some of this go by rail instead of by road? Is there scope for a timber processing plant in Foynes as per Belview and haul logs? Much of the inward freight here is finished goods and comes either via shipping container or unaccompanied truck trailer, is there scope to move this to rail? I know the former is nearly if not already dead, dunno if the overhead clearance is there on rail bridges to move the latter? Some of this would require marshalling yards at the other end somewhere .. how feasible any of this is is difficult to say.

Auld Slapper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968390#Comment_121968390

the only concrete client I have heard is the minister for transport along with Bord na Mona, he was in Brazil Brazil over St Patrick's week to sign an agreement to import the Amazon trees for burning our power plant and he is determined to move it by rail to show how green he is. This is not what you would call an anchor tenant all the same.

Auld Slapper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966853#Comment_121966853

wexford's plans to become Ireland's gateway to Europe and the UK, seems they will be in direct competition to the port geographically in the furthest place from the action

https://fleet.ie/planning-permission-submission-for-e30-million-rosslare-europort-masterplan/

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968646#Comment_121968646

90% of that is better access roads and loading facilities.

Nothing to do with Rosslare focusing more on none RoRo traffic like the poster said earlier.

30m won't change much in terms of the media fluff speak about "gateways to Europe"

Auld Slapper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968719#Comment_121968719

170m investment started there last September, I just don't get why we are creating all these ports given we have a population of not much more than greater Manchester. There must be a better strategic option for our children's Ireland

andrewfaulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968646#Comment_121968646

Wexford closed as a port in the 80s, it’s Rosslare we are referring to.. Galway port has plans also to built a massive port with a rail line into it, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen to the extent envisioned.. And Sligo would be the furthest active port from Europe in the republic..

Auld Slapper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969146#Comment_121969146

jesus I'd say you're great craic

spacetweek

Auld Slapper, can you take it easy? You're pretty much spamming the thread at this stage.

"he was in Brazil Brazil over St Patrick's week to sign an agreement to import the Amazon trees for burning our power plant"

No way, no way do I believe what you just said. Links or it didn't happen.

Auld Slapper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971691#Comment_121971691

spamming? Get real, I'm expressing a perspective that might be in conflict with yours. I can't reveal my source but I direct you to the article below, starts to make sense?

https://www.offalyindependent.ie/2023/05/04/outrage-at-reports-of-wood-chips-from-brazil-going-to-edenderry-power/

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972123#Comment_121972123

"reports of" which equals not proven fact.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968390#Comment_121968390

This is how I feel about it. Good the line is opening but for no traffic is a kooky as it gets. Depressing actually. OK the line is there and 'maybe' they have some kind of bulk traffic to be imported yet we do not know about. Sure they could develop rail based industry along the line but we are back Imagination Land again. Even if they get bulk traffic they simply do not have the wagons for it as things stand.

Like I said I am stunned by this no traffic revelation, and End of the Road is living in his own Imagination Land if he thinks the media with negative stories no long prevents rail projects going ahead. Has he seen the non stop war on the Dublin Metro right now? Get a grip the politicians are getting ready to mothball it yet again. Just because you can no get kebabs at 4AM does not equal that Ireland has changed all of its spots from the past.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963410#Comment_121963410

The Imagination Land is stong with the Foynes brach. Now giving the WRC a run for its money in terms of magical thinking.

timmyntc

The haulage industry is in crisis and this will get significantly worse over the coming decades. Autonomous trucks is a non runner, it won't be there for a long time and will be subject to attacks from anti AI protestors.

This struggle to staff transport sector is part of why Dublin Metrolink is so important - because it's fully segregated and autonomous, because the alternative (buses) cannot possibly ever get enough staff. Even current staffing levels for Dublin bus will be difficult to maintain over the coming decades, transport sector (not just transport of people, but goods too) needs to move to more efficient modes in terms of drivers per tonnage.

Rail freight will be making a comeback because of labour shortages more than anything else, a certain profile of goods suits rail freight well and the competitiveness of road freight by comparison is waning all the time.

Building things like Foynes rail link is about forward planning, something we are not used to at all in this country, so much so that when it happens people are falling over themselves screaming - "where is the urgent need now?"

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973841#Comment_121973841

the influence of the mainstream media is buttons compared to what it was, people have woken up to the anti-rail elements of the media quite some time ago and hardly anyone listens to them now.

metro will be built, way way more is being done on it now then ever was so it's at a stage now where it costs more to cancel it then build it.

the days of media stopping rail investment are over, the game has changed, climate change is happening, younger people get their news from elsewhere and for those who still use mainstream media, the support for things like metro is quite high now days.

sean barrot couldn't stop the dart, him and others couldn't stop the luas or the WRC and they will not stop metro.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973935#Comment_121973935

exactly, 100% correct.

to take your metro point, even if you could get the staff, there is no way you could run a bus service capable of taking the passenger numbers metrolink is expected to take.

Paddico

Off topic completely but I have to ask.

Whats the meaning of your signature End of the Road?

spacetweek

Well Arcadia Junction referred to Enda Kenny as “end of the road” (Enda Da Road?) so I think it might be a reference to that.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979552#Comment_121979552

Alcohol action ireland are basically a campaign group who support nonsense like minimum unit pricing an the absolutely stupid guff of closing the oflicenses at 10 pm.
their ultimate aim many legitimately suspect is to bring about full prohibition of alcohol in ireland.
i want them to lose their government funding and to be shut down.

i also want minimum unit pricing abolished.

Paddico

Gotya, thanks for that. P

The_Wanderer

In a further update from the weekend just gone, earlier on the Saturday I paid a visit to the Limerick - Foynes Railway which is currently being rebuilt for freight traffic. 

In my latest update (no. 7) we see a selection of photos from various locations between Foynes and Adare showing recent progress on the rebuilding of the railway. Work is well advanced at the Foynes end of the railway (excluding the railway station itself) with the trackbed for several miles now ready to have track laid on it, the further you go towards Limerick the work is less advanced.

All the photos can be viewed at 

https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/Officialevents/2024/Foynes-Line-Reconstruction-/i-fh7FVB4

To see all the photos in the collection (starting in November 2022) click https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/Officialevents/2024/Foynes-Line-Reconstruction-/i-J27B2SK