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Increase in road deaths - questions need to be asked

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭ofcork


    That was noel clancy whos wife and daughter were killed in a crash by an unaccompanied learner,they took the ad off the tv as people werent happy.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I firmly believe that only garda enforcement will work. Every druver knows the rules (in general!) but simply just ignore them. An RSA advert or some politician nagging them does nothing to effect behavioural chang

    And here we are with Garda Traffic Corps numbers on a downward trajectory and driver obedience on a downward trajectory and deaths and serious injuries on an upward trajectory. Don't tell me that they're not related



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,556 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    And while there are hard core law breakers, for whom other measures are needed, 80% of the sloppy lazy drivers would tighten up their act if there was even a modest increase in enforcement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭blackvalley


    In an effort to reduce speeding the technology already exists to track and record the speed and location of vehicles and is used by transport companies to streamline services via gps. Also I can at any time log into flight radar and check the speed, altitude and location of an aircraft anywhere in the world. 
    With all that technology available is it not possible to fit every vehicle with a gps tracker linked to the database of speed limits so that a fine automatically issues to the registered owner if the speed limit is exceeded. 
    That would partially solve the problem but probably the question of inappropriate speed for the given conditions of road and weather are also major factors .



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,668 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    My point is the reaction doesn't fit the problem... Case in point, Ciaran Tracey was killed by a man who was multiple times the legally permissible alcohol limit, in response we reduced the limit slightly... Would his killer have thought differently had the limit been lower?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    The solution to road deaths is two fold.

    1. Personal responsibility.

    Stop blaming other people, the quality of roads, level of policing, etc.

    Drive responsibility.

    2. The Judiciary.

    Lieant sentences, cases being struck out on silly reasons.

    But then, the judiciary are beyond reproach.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,823 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    unfortunately your number one is not a solution. it's an item on a wish list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭mikeecho




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    Immediate confiscation/destruction of the phone is the only answer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    deleted



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭VeVeX


    Or revoke the driving license and nullify any no claims insurance discount. Start from scratch, mandatory 10 driving lessons and resit the driving test. That would be a considerable expense and inconvenience aka a deterrent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,556 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage




  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭Richmond Ultra


    Shane Ross , i know he is not everyone's cup of tea wrote a good article in the Sindo about being an accompanying driver. It made sense.

    He did the test 50 years ago, how will he show someone how to pass it now?

    Most Garda Division in Dublin struggle to fill regular cars, never mind traffic cars with personnel. That will take years to fix



  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Ash40


    There has hardly a night gone by this last while where there someone hasn't lost their life on the roads. It's scary. I realise there are a lot more cars on the roads now even from when I started driving 20 years ago but I feel like there's a serious last of focus or concentration from drivers now. I agree with the post above regarding mobile phones! ANYTHING that takes your attention away from the road should not be in the car with you (impossible with kids, I grant you) but I have to wonder does music play a part here. I dont mean diddly dee music but faster dance music perhaps where someone might get carried away. I suppose I'm just clutching at straws trying to find a reason for this madness!



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,673 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If only he had been in some kind of position to something about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    I recently learned that in Canada, if you get caught doing 40 over the limit, immediate roadside 30 day licence suspension and car impounded for 14 days. Even if it isn't your car. Plus more after court. Saw a video of a young lad getting pulled in his dads car, so in addition to his punishment, he has to tell his dad he no longer has his car for 2 weeks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,228 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    We once had road deaths figures in the 500s and even 600s annually.

    Probably back in the day when people didn't wear seat belts, and cars weren't as safe as they are now, but still shows that it is far safer now on the roads with huge increase in car numbers as well.

    As a contributor said on the radio yesterday, we are seeing more deaths from Covid annually now than from road deaths, but the way the media are pushing the latter you'd almost think there was an unhealthy obsession with it. Of course every life lost is tragic, but its going to happen no matter what measures are put in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭Water2626262


    The most annoying thing is the government solution will be to penalise the entire population by reducing all speed limits by 20/30 kmh. Forget about enforcing the existing laws.

    Forget doing anything practical. Look at the prevalence of dashcams. I could capture some fast and the furious style shenanigans on the M50 and the gardai would probably tell me I’m breaching GDPR by showing it to them. Compare that to the UK where some police districts allow you upload footage directly to them and drivers get penalty points in the post.

    Love him or hate him but look at what cycling mikey can do on his commute to work. It might be a bit overboard with snitching but it’s got to be better than having half of drivers watching TikTok on the road. Might even ease congestion with drivers actually moving at lights instead of being buried in their phone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭Green Peter


    I'm a Garda and the No 1 reason is Enforcement, the numbers in roads policing have dropped significantly and the upsurge in deaths is a direct result and it's plain and obvious for government to see. I would love for some journalist to publish a graph of same showing the fall in Garda numbers and rise in deaths. Until those numbers are restored and brought to an even higher level we are wasting our time. No point changing limits or introducing laws if they add to the ones we can't enforce. This is why poor recruitment policy and retention of members needs to be addressed. DPERS won't address this and results in government department holding the lot up while people die on our roads. Senior civil servants have alot to answer for but they never have to show their faces to the public and families of the bereaved



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭Field east


    excessive speed is constantly being put forward as the reason for most accidents/road deaths.Is this really true.?Is it not driver behaviour. Simple example - a driver driving at 60kph on a perfectly dry road , including ones with a few turns/sharp bends will more than likely complete a journey no problem. BUT the same driver driving on the exact same road during a massive deluge/down pour of rain has a very high probabiility of acqua -planning and crashing into something and getting seriously injured/killed.


    SO, what caused the crash ?

    -Was it speed ONLY?
    -Was it ignorance of the possibility of the car acqua-planning?

    - Could it be the fact, if applicable, driver was not wearing a seat belt.?

    - bald tyres, especially in the aqua- planning situation?

    So , it’s a bit disingenuous/ lazy / simple to be blaming SPEED ONLY as the cause of road deaths.
    I’m that are caused by driver behaviour across a wide range of issues - some of which are highlighted above. Funnily enough, some accidents are caused mainly by cars being badly parked/ parked in the wrong place, drivers driving into oncoming traffic from by-roads - taking a chance that there is nothing coming.

    I suggest that the appropriate authorities should drill down a bit more to highlight the % of accidents where bald tyres, etc , were also an issue



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭screamer


    The road deaths this year just seem to be non stop. I know in the greater context they're probably not significant number wise but its also the life changing injuries that we don't even hear about.

    I find that a lot of drivers seem to have become aggressive, no courtesy, or patience. I really think something has fundamentally changed there. Mobile phone usage for sure is a huge factor and Im sorry to say it but I see pedestrians and cyclists out on dark roads with limited or no high visibility gear.

    I think everyone has to play their partnto mske the roads safer, its crazy, and personally puts me off driving, because you're trying to drive to offset the idiots so much more these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    There is almost a perfect correlation between reduced roads policing and increased road deaths I'm guessing. You hit the nail on the head, until that is sorted the RSA's vision zero will be p*ssing into the wind.

    I drove around Ireland's 2nd largest city a good bit this weekend. Didn't see a single solitary roads policing car or go safe van despite all the noise about them being out in force for Easter weekend.

    Also, the advent of technology in cars needs closer scrutiny. New cars now have a 12 inch screen on the dash offering drivers a myriad of ways to distract themselves. Need to go back to physical button control of a radio and basic sat nav, the likes of apple car play is only a driver distraction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭almostover


    Ah but sure the general Irish motorist has no bother taking on €50k of debt for a new car only to let the tyres go bald on it and then replace them with the cheapest Chinese offering from the local tyre garage. Penny rich and pound foolish motorists in this country



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,228 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Wondering would a CyclingMikey character be allowed in this country?

    Anyone know the answer?

    Would camera footage of drivers using mobile phones be admissible? Would they get points/fines? Or would the evidence be ignored for fear of being challenged in court?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,675 ✭✭✭creedp


    Why not 4 weeks to align with your license suspension? What happens the car for the 2 weeks you can't drive it? It won't always be Daddy's car



  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Ash40


    You have a good point there actually! Just because they're publicised more doesn't mean there are more of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,949 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Distracting technology plus cars are just getting ridiculously big in general. Do we really need people driving Ford Rangers in cities? A lot of them don't even seem to be used as work vehicles, judging from the immaculate paintwork and alloys on them (and I imagine most tradespeople prefer vans). There's hyperfocus on the likes of electric bikes and scooters but we're sleepwalking into a situation where every B class license holder is driving a small truck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭Field east


    there was a time ,not so many years ago when there were more road deaths than there were days in the year ans during that time there were many more guards employed than there are now. There wwere 371 road deaths in one particular year.
    when we compare one year to another re numbers we need to take account of / factor in the effect of ICT on numbers and increasing the output /effectiveness of the Gardai. Compared to a few years ago. Critical knowledge has naturally increased for obvious reasons, ;garda cars are better equipped and faster;, laws have improved; ICT has massively enhanced the gardais’ effectiveness, etc,

    A simple but classical example of some of the above being put into action is when there is a robbery in the ‘ back of beyond’s ‘ in Galway the robbers are apprehended near Dublin as they are going through a toll bridge. Talk about real-time - there you have it.

    Other examples - the recent riots in Dublin re the knifing of two children and their carer and the torching of proposed refugee centres. Individuals have been aphrended as a result - using CCTV/ local knowledge I assume



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,556 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    There is a long term correlation, as it helps change culture. Gardai numbers declined from the Troika onwards, but the fatalities continued to decline for some years. It will take time to turn this around, but sing along ads on TV will not do it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Ash40


    I 100% agree with this. As a good example, I live beside a woman and she was hardly able to handle a car but now she drives a huge 4x4 and every time you meet her on the road, she's driving in the middle of the road. Absolutely no idea how to judge it so instead of doing the sensible thing and driving something you're able to handle, just drive in the middle of the road..... ridiculous!!



This discussion has been closed.
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