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2024 F1 General Discussion Thread

1171820222357

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Wasn’t it just emailed to a load of F1 journos? I don’t think that would be covered under GDPR, their contact info is public knowledge anyway.

    I think RB have to be very careful about any potential punishment - unless she has shown to leak false info to damage Horner, anything else could come across as spiteful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭bren2001


    If its a work phone, it likely would be covered by an NDA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭McFly85


    While that’s true - the optics of them going after her based solely on that are pretty horrendous. The spirit of an NDA is to protect confidential company info, not to cover an executives impropriety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    I dont have much faith in RB after their internal "independent" private investigation. That turned out well.

    Self preservation at all costs isnt always the best policy. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses instead of digging in and looking like an organisation that supports sexual harassment.

    I hope she cleans Red Bull to the bone for a fortune.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,507 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    100% this.

    NDAs are voided by disciplinary code violations or law breaking.

    It only matters if the messages were real. If they were real, then she has been through sexual harassment and coercive behaviour.

    Everything else is irrelevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Anyone else find it odd she had him as CH in her contacts?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,441 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Christian Horner had said it’s “time to draw a line” under the allegations of inappropriate behaviour. Yes, because your team allegedly suspended the person who made the claims about you. Jesus red bull really seems to be making a mess of this. Today at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,507 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,703 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Interesting bits from story in the London times...

    The Times understands that her suspension, on full pay, relates to the findings of the independent investigation which cleared Horner last week. Sources suggest the reason given to her was that she had been dishonest, and that there were inconsistencies in the evidence she had provided.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    The female complainant retains the right to appeal within five days of receiving the official written confirmation that the grievance was dismissed, and is understood to be likely to do so.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    While Horner has not claimed that the images, ­containing hundreds of messages and other content, are fake, sources have pointed to discrepancies with some of the correspondence. Certain WhatsApp messages begin with a lower-case letter, when WhatsApp mobile posts automatically start with a capital. The Times has seen past WhatsApp messages from Horner and they start with a capital letter.


    Sounds like there's a question over the validity of the leaked messages perhaps?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    Just had a look through my WhatsApp. Id say about 10% of my messages start with a lower case letter. Not sure how exactly. Cant say Ive ever given it much thought.

    Of course its possible the WhatsApps are fake but wouldn't there have been a denial? Nothing from Horner since they surfaced except a request to draw a line under it all and move on.

    Wasnt expecting an article about rogue lower case WhatsApp letters though! Ridiculous stuff! 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭waynescales1


    Automatic capitalisation can disappear when you type something, then change your mind and decide to retype something else, or delete part of the message you've written. Given some of the nonsense he was sending to yer one I'd imagine he had a few goes at wording it correctly.


    Still, I was sure Horner was gonna go, not so sure now. Looking very confident in the team principals press conference. Accuser suspended, (spurious) doubts about the authenticity of the evidence. I think he's gonna survive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,093 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    You'd surely think if RedBull are taking this action then they've strong evidence and have all their facts in order that there is wrong doing on her behalf otherwise it would be a complete publicity disaster if it isn't already. They are getting enough backlash as it is from social media and now the social media "content creators" are going after the drivers on the grid for nothing speaking up about it. I've seen Danny Ric getting slaughtered online for his response about the whole thing likewise with Stroll,Hulkenberg and Bottas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,572 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I really think as slimy as horner is that he is being fucked over by Jos and his girlfriend with Jos using it as a golden opportunity to get rid of.him and the woman possibly in so deep that she just might have destroyed her career.

    If she was happy to play along with horner for god knows how long, I think it's abit rich to pull the plug and then call it harassment.

    At this stage, with the power struggle known to be happening at redbull, I'm hoping horner survives and banishes verstappen senior from redbull circles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,086 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    Looking forward to the Red Bull International Women’s Day posts tomorrow



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 60,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    Deserves a reply because I laughed out loud in the pub, brilliant 🤣



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Very interesting revelation today that the woman in question is dating Jos Verstappen. I'm not sure how long that has been public knowledge but what a mess. If the texts were genuine I doubt Geri would be hanging around but I find it strange that the woman was suspended today. That would lead me to believe her party leaked the texts and now she's been suspended by Red Bull as a result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    🤣🤣

    Its a wonder we haven't seen more of Mercedes' new steering wheel with the WhatsApp button.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭Ted222


    Here’s my summary.

    Jos is being a complete knob. He always has been a knob going back to his own days in F1.

    He has an inflated sense of his own importance, based of his gifting Max to the world. Jos really doesn’t put his son’s best interests ahead of his own. His penis is of more importance than his son’s career.

    Max has a blind sense of loyalty to his father. This would seem to imply a need to impress a father who was largely cruel to his son in his early years and, I would suggest, continues to be. I find this a fascinating insight into Max’s character.

    If Max leaves to join Mercedes it will be a triumph of Max’s misguided devotion to his father over logical reasoning.

    Cristian Horner is ultimately a sad tosser thinks he’s god but has made the mistake that other people think so too. His marriage is under threat and he doesn’t seem to have even gotten a ride out of it. As a CEO, he should have known better than to be so indiscreet with an employee and particularly with one who was knocking off his star performer’s father.

    It’s a ball of crap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 964 ✭✭✭mun1


    A lot of disappointed people in this thread tonight, they’re dissappointed that Horner was cleared of any wrongdoing and his accuser has been rightfully dismissed from RB.


    back to business and the racing .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Are the text messages legit? Has any credible source actually come out and said they are real or fake?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,703 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Why was the accuser being suspended (not dismissed) the right thing to do by Red Bull?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,630 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Suspended with pay.

    When they're in this kind of dispute and the source of the leak hasn't been officially* determined, I'm sure they can't actually trust her to be around sensitive information. Suspension with pay is probably fair enough, considering the circumstances.

    *I imagine she's the main suspect in the leak.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 441 ✭✭Ted222


    There’s a process to follow. There has to an investigation to determine what happened.

    If the suspicion is confirmed through the investigation, she’ll be dismissed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    Not a hope.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/f1-christian-horner-international-womens-day-red-bull-b2508935.html

    The message it sends, on the eve of the all-female racing series F1 Academy starting its second season on International Women’s Day, is truly terrible.


    It implies to women: stay quiet. Don’t speak up against the behaviour of senior personnel in your place of work. If you do, prepare for your own job to be at risk, rather than the alleged perpetrator.


    The accuser was working in her role as late as Monday at their base in Milton Keynes, but will now be considering her legal options, likely an appeal or maybe even an employment tribunal.

    ...

    More significantly than Horner’s victim complex is the damage this episode is having, day-by-day, on the carefully caricatured product F1 has built in the last few years, particularly in this new Netflix-era. A sport seemingly open to change, away from the billion-pound boys club of yesteryear.

    ...

    The irony is palpable. But for F1, the whole saga is becoming perilous. Slowly but surely, it is undoing all the genuinely good work the sport has done to increase the visibility of women and ethnic minorities, alongside making the paddock a safe and welcoming space of work. More transparency is desperately needed.

    This will run on and on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Its impossible for anyone outside of RB to determine if this is the right thing to do....

    Either RB are making an absolute balls of this or RB know something the general public don't know. If anything, this just drags the saga out even longer. You'd forget qualifying was today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭quokula


    Yeah they're in a tight situation, it's pretty clear to anyone with a bit of sense that everything has been done in a totally above board way as a company of that size would leave nothing to chance and would never suspend someone for making an allegation unless the legal case is completely watertight. But they're tied up by privacy legislation in their ability to release the actual facts, leaving the malicious actors in the media and the knuckle draggers on social media free to keep running with fabrications and rumours instead to keep drumming up bad publicity and trying to dig into Horner's personal life. It's utterly vile to see. I wonder if we'll end up seeing some of the worst offenders in the media up in the courts for libel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,630 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    That's not necessarily how it works at all. That's the bluff they could be playing. Big, powerful institutions are renowned for battening down the hatches and saying "come have a go". Money is the ammunition in this battle and the big, powerful institutions have more ammo than any individual.

    There's a great chance the claimant takes a settlement and signs an NDA, everyone draws a line under it and we never know what actually happened. The independent investigation sounded great until they decided to show zero transparency.

    We're still none the wiser about what actually happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Sainz is out this weekend due to appendicitis.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    Wrong thread lads (we need more traffic in the race thread 😁).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭jj880


    Have RB / Horner presented a good reason why they cant say the WhatsApps are fake?

    If the answer is "privacy laws" then more detail on those need to be given as it seems acceptable to cast doubt on the messages due to lower case lettering (farcical) in an attempt to discredit Hewitson as dishonest but Horner cant issue a denial.

    As long as theres no denial of the WhatsApps (without good reason) it looks like RB / Horner are hunkering down to take the heat until it all blows over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,527 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I hope Carlos makes a smooth recovery from his operation whenever he has it as we need the smooth operator back in the Ferrari as soon as possible.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,703 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    If Sainz is going for operation now, will he be back for Australia? It's another 2 weeks after that before Japan (weird it's so early) so I assume he'll be sound for then. When it happened to Albon he was back for the next race but had 3 weeks rather than 2...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭KillerShamrock


    He will be assessed by doctors fit guy like him should be able to recover but the doctor would have the final say. He may have to wait till Japan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Audi to fully take over Sauber now.

    Originally they were to take over 75% of the team, now they will take 100%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Infoanon


    Marko has told Austrian TV station ORF that he may be suspended on Monday by Red Bull.

    Multiple media outlets are reporting that it's linked to allegations of breaching confidentiality.

    Max in response has come out very strongly stating that Helmet is key to his future at Red Bull and that he must stay at Red Bull .

    Multiple media outlets reporting that Max has a get out clause if Helmet leaves.

    What a mess......



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,093 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    Helmut has been a loose cannon for quite a while now and I'd personally be happy to see him gone. He's said some questionable things over the years but he's 80 now surely he wouldn't be hanging working for the team for much longer. For RedBull to lose Verstappen would be a massive blow to the team, he can single handedly win the constructors for the team. Where would RedBull even go if they lost Verstappen, no driver that's part of RedBull currently is good enough to lead the team and if they look elsewhere the options are limited



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Max saying that if Helmut leaves, it will not be a good situation.

    This is wild stuff, and all the while Alonso saying he will decide in the next few weeks if he will stay on or retire. Imagine he lands at RB because Max leaves over Helmut...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭Longing


    So the leaks came from Marko looks like it. What absolute Sh*t show the whole situation is now. Power play by dirty practice and from beginning of last weekend when CH was looking to be on his way out. Today's news has highlighted his wingman and its not looking good Hulmet has said on Sky Germany. Remember Marko signed Verstappen. Max has clearly said Helmut has to stay for sure. So If Marko goes I don't think there is anyway of avoiding the Iceberg.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,572 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Don't worry. If helmut is sacked and Jos banished, young max will know which side his bread is buttered on and be more than happy to remain sitting in the redbull car.

    It will be easy enough for him to save face say he is staying for the good of the team and to support the factory staff etc.

    Looks like horner is sitting pretty.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    I still don't think Max is going anywhere anytime soon, whatever happens to Marko. You just don't give up the best car on the grid because of some power struggle/love triangle mess between a bunch of old geezers. It doesn't seem to be affecting the trackside performance of the team or drivers thankfully, or not yet anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭Longing


    No dont think Max is leaving yet. But if Marko goes and in 2026 Ford show up with a Lada of a engine he is gone no doubt. I hope he stays for a long time in F1 would be a real shame for the sport if things go bad for Red Bull over the next year or two and he decides to go to WEC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,703 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Ford aren't making the engine, red bull are. So it's possible that they know what sort of performance will be expected from it in 2026, maybe it'll be a tractor and they're looking for an out?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭Longing


    Yea should of said partnership. But I would be more happier if it said Cosworth on there cars for 26.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    It appears that Christian Horner was texting this woman, which initially began as light banter but escalated into mild sexting. My assumption is that he was cleared of any wrongdoing due to the consensual nature of their interactions. However, there seems to be tension between Jos and Helmut, who hold negative opinions of Horner and may desire his removal. Recently, the lady involved in this situation may have become part of an anti-Horner narrative, likely influenced by Jos and Helmut, who may have encouraged her to come forward and label Horner as a “bold boy.” If the text messages are authentic, it suggests that someone connected to these three individuals leaked the messages, and there are indications that Helmut might have been involved.

    The situation becomes precarious for Jos and Helmut if Horner was indeed not engaged in inappropriate texting with this woman. In that case, they could face significant consequences. While it’s hard to definitively conclude whether the entire scenario was fabricated, it remains a possibility. Perhaps Horner explained to his wife that he was merely flirting and had no intention of acting on it.

    Regarding Red Bull Racing, many believe they heavily rely on Max Verstappen. However, I’m inclined to think that they could entice drivers like Lando Norris, Fernando Alonso, or Charles Leclerc away from their current contracts without much concern. Max is undeniably talented, but the car’s performance plays a crucial role. Let’s be candid about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Infoanon


    Max has drawn the battle lines tonight ; Helmut stays ,Horner goes or otherwise he goes.

    The words Max is using in his statements 'Jos is not a liar ',' Helmut is honest and has integrity ' , 'Helmut built this team ' and an implication that Helmut saved Horner from the chop in the past.

    Honda are also pushing for full disclosure of the truth which Max has referenced .

    Max has come out in full support of Helmut in contrast to his non existent support of Christian.

    Helmut has stated that he will decide if he stays or not , apparently if Helmut leaves Max then becomes a free agent thanks to a clause in his contract.

    Horner out puts the Thai majority owners plan to demerge or sell the F1 team to an Horner led investment group off the table.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Max would be barking mad to leave Red Bull when they have the car they have.

    He could well decide to go, maybe to Mercedes, maybe to Aston Martin?

    I think he is trying for this situation to be resolved, but once the dust settles he will end up staying put.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,093 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    You're correct in the car being critical but I don't think any other driver on the grid would be able to drive the car on its limit while rarely making a mistake and extract the performance out it like he can. We've seen it countless times especially in qualifying where he can pull a couple of tenths out of nowhere and take pole. It's not just his pace but his awareness for things like watching huw other cars behave on track, other lads driving, other teams pitstops and strategies. You'd wonder if he's even human at times



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