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M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

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    #932
    Pale Red
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Pale Red


    The thing that would concern me is the delay and cost of this 'fast track' solution. A certain amount of reworking junctions (especially filling in gap from M20), taking away roundabouts, etc. I would be willing to put up with delays or detours for a week while the golf was on if it meant a quicker overall delivery. The FOI documents said that it might not be possible to deliver 'fast track' if everything didn't go well (I'm sure that was a certain amount of covering his back).



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    #933
    I told ya
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭I told ya


    Would anyone have an estimate of the daily numbers expected for the event?

    Not trying to derail (pun) the thread, but as the Limerick/Foynes railway line is currently in the process of being rebuilt, and a Adare station is a short walk to the village, would this help in any way to reduce the traffic and parking required?

    Would the L/F section of the line be open in time? Station upgraded? Limerick station would appear to have good connectivity to Dublin/Galway/Cork and all the intermediate stations and surrounding areas.

    Make parking difficult/expensive and we're good at that.

    I'm from the school of build once, build right. Would hate to see a rush job and then waiting years and years to have it corrected.



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    #934
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    The issue with Adare is existing through traffic that use it every day. So add to that traffic coming into or near the town for the event will lead to even bigger tailbacks than friday evening traffic.

    The kilgobbin road bridge is the only structure on the tie in section to the M20. That would be a lot faster built than the Maigue river bridge therefore should not add to the timeframe.



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    #935
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633577#Comment_121633577


    I think it's around 50k per day.

    The rail question has been discussed previously.

    The Foynes line is only being made ready for freight. There are currently no plans for further upgrades to allow the running of passenger services. That could change, but a decision to do so would need to be made relatively soon.



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    #936
    Pale Red
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Pale Red


    P&R from the likes of Limerick racecourse could remove thousands of cars from going near Adare. This would be needed with or without 'fast track'. The more I think about this, the more I believe that this is really a phoney proposal to show that 'all possibilities were explored'.



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    #937
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636436#Comment_121636436

    And the 17000 cars that pass through adare every day will go where? They may be major diversions in place to cater for most of this traffic. N20 and N69 will need to cater for any national road diverion.



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    #938
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    With presumably most Adare car traffic arriving from Limerick, the lack of a tie-in to the existing M20 is baffling.



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    #939
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Without having studied it too closely, I don't see any logic in these proposals. I'm not sure it will really improve much/anything for the Ryder Cup. With more than two years, I don't think time will be an issue. Of course TII aren't going to say that and potentially make a rod for their own backs if you get a Roadbridge type situation.

    I also don't see the issue with including more works in the initial contract. If not all is ready in time and you only have whats currently proposed, you are no worse off and work continues in the background. However, if more gets done before the event, you are in a better position.

    If someone might be thinking/hoping that no further works might happen after the initial contract, that isn't going to be the case with this project scope. More works are definitely going to be needed after, or even before the initial contract has been completed.



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    #940
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I tend to agree having read the proposals. The prospect of a half baked Adare Int-Croagh Int bypass with at grade roundabouts where the overbridges will be would be a colossal waste of money for a 3 day event. It'll cost a fortune to reconfigure it to motorway standard after the road opens.

    There is no reason why at least a M20-Croagh Int can't be open by then if the above can be, perhaps with one carriageway of the motorway open under traffic management. If they're going to have the Maigue bridge done there's no reason the rest of it can't be done. It's a fairly basic road across reasonable terrain.



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    #941
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,502 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It's remarkable how nothing gets done properly in this country. Literally nothing.



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    #942
    lordleitrim
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭lordleitrim


    I saw some construction trucks working adjacent to the N21 road leading into Adare from Limerick this afternoon and a fair bit of site clearance, cut trees and temporary power lines erected etc. Does this mean work has actually commenced on the 7km section? If so, great to see after 20+ years of waiting to see this become a reality!



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    #943
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696161#Comment_121696161

    Highly likely that was for the rail line works



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    #944
    lordleitrim
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭lordleitrim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121697199#Comment_121697199

    Aah...tantalisingly confusing!!



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    #945
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    I’d say it was the Adare Bypass advance contract if visible from limerick approach past the Lantern Lodge. Railway is close by at that location too.



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    #946
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    There are trees cleared where the new roundabout will go on the approach into Adare just east of the manor golf club entrance so it looks like there is clearance being done on the scheme alright. The bigger civil works north of lantern lodge roundabout relate to the railway id imagine. The road will pass north of where the stockpile of stone is where the farm is.



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    #947
    feirmeoir bob
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭feirmeoir bob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696161#Comment_121696161

    Fencing and clearing of the route started in December outside Croagh village and has commenced beside the existing Rathkeale bypass in the last week.



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    #948
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The Adare Bypass section is expected to go to tender in April with an estimated September award date. Construction is due to be finished by June 27.

    https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/1430188/40-million-funding-announced-for-adare-bypass-and-m20-limerick-cork-roads.html




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    #949
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121803479#Comment_121803479

    Any updates on whether it will be the 7km version or the full 11km version to tie in with M20?

    Because the below is a joke.


    image.png




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    #950
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The money was to progress the entire Foynes-Limerick project, not just a bypass of Adare. Drawings for Foynes-Limerick are here: FINAL DESIGN UPDATE - NOVEMBER 2018 | foyneslimerick

    This year’s allocation states that the Adare bypass is to be delivered as part of the advance works for the project, so that probably means they’ll lay the road, but junctions will be built at-grade until the full project replaces them with full grade separation. As the project has not been cancelled, and is proceeding to completion, anything like the pic above will be only temporary while the rest of the scheme is being built.



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    #951
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    In those almost three years, they could build the entire motorway section. That 7km section will be knocked out pretty quickly.

    It wouldn't surprise me if they opened that 7km only to realise that it doesn't actually solve any problems, only moving them to the roundabouts. Then they start scrambling to get the full motorway section done ahead of the Ryder Cup because it is clear that there will be huge tailbacks either side of Adare without it.



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    #952
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,502 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    What's the problem here? Why don't they just build the thing properly in the first place.



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    #953
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    The above will lead to severe tail backs onto the m20 due to the slowing of vehicles for all the roundsbouts to even bypass adare. That wont be a good look if people park and ride in the race course for example and have to sit in traffic for an hour or more.



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    #954
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    Also the fact that this was sitting on Ryans desk for 3 or 4 months is crazy. He is asleep at the wheel if his bike. Wreckless minister.



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    #955
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804627#Comment_121804627

    Building the thing properly will take 3 years, and that's just the construction time. Building this part this way first means that Adare can be bypassed about two years earlier than it would be otherwise.

    The structures are what take the time in projects like this.


    @pajoguy if you're talking about the golf event, then it won't matter. This road is mainly for the use of people not attending that event. Those attending will go into Adare, and will be subject to the usual Garda traffic management plan.

    Long queues are normal for events like this everywhere in the world.



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    #956
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,502 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804761#Comment_121804761

    Some of us may be understandably suspicious that the 'temporary' scheme will end up being the permanent one. How Irish would that be?



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    #957
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The project is still proceeding. All they've done is move a quick bypass of Adare into the preliminary works phase.

    If it works, it would be a good model to follow for future bypasses: get something usable up and running as soon as possible so that the public sees the benefits, not just the inconvenience of the works.



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    #958
    pajoguy
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804761#Comment_121804761

    But all the traffic will have to travel straight through the woodlands roundabout onto the next online roundabout just east of Adare Manor Golf Club entrance.

    The centre of the village will be traffic free alright.

    Would the maigue river crossing take more than 30 months to build? That would be the biggest obstacle.



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    #959
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804844#Comment_121804844

    Sorry no, the way this is being done is absolutely terrible. I don't here an issue with delivering in phases but the entire motorway section should be done first. Not continuing from the existing motorway standard road makes no sense at all. A good chunk of it east of Adare is online upgrade.

    They should just proceed with the motorway section to Rathkeale, working east to west. If it all isn't ready in time for the Ryder Cup, just open as far as Croagh. What's going to be done now will have to be upgraded in the not too distant future.



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    #960
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804844#Comment_121804844

    If anything with this scheme, the public will see the opposite.

    Firstly, they'll be wondering why a 2km gap between two stretches of full motorway was left, when planning permission exists for the construction of a motorway to bridge said 2km gap, and it's across flat land with some of the earthworks already done for it.

    Secondly, the most time consuming element of this 2027 plan will be the Maigue bridge. That's going to have to be done anyway so there's no reason a full motorway between the M20 and Croagh couldn't be built going by the planned timeline. If they can get that bridge done in that timeframe, they can get the whole lot done.

    Thirdly, this whole thing smacks of someone realising somewhere on Merrion Street last year that it will look horrific if the Ryder Cup takes place in 2027 and there is no bypass/bypass is under construction. So we get this half baked plan instead.

    As long as the full M21 from Rathkeale to east of Adare follows on shortly after it'll be fine. God help us if there's any shenanigans with the main project and we end up with this for the medium term.



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