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Hub Controller options

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    @deezell thanks very much I'll check that out tonight 👍



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    @deezell I didn't have time to go testing the Tado, I just replaced it with the EPH and all is working as it should now.

    The tado lost connection with the internet a couple of times during the last year and the heating was on when it shouldn't have been. It's especially annoying when you're not home and you're getting phone calls about it.

    So I'm gone off the smart controls for now I'll just keep it simple for a while.

    By the way I'm still getting emails from Hub Controller inviting me to subscribe 😜

    Thanks for all your help it's much appreciated. Happy Christmas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 auvngv


    Climote replacement

    I've been very happy with the Climote (as has and most important my wife, even with sub which was reasonable) However they have now advised the unit we have no longer supports any remote function - sim or app and we have to replace it DIY for €199 or €349 for install. I'm looking at other options. I currently have gravity fed boiler, 2 zones. I want unit that can support condensor boiler in time, 3 zones (as water is not separate at mo) and remote boost feature - we tend to only have set for morning and then boost as required. Appreciate any quidance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    Install a Hive Active (€191) or a Hive mini (€151) CH +HW kit, this will do for your CH plus gravity HW, then when you get the 3 independent zones plumbed, get the add on extra CH stat and relay kit, €84 Mini, €128 Active.

    Hive Active


    Hive Mini




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,494 ✭✭✭ongarite


    Quick tip for anyone with Tado Smart TRV in vertical mounting position. I have found that the temperature reading is not accurate by 1-2C when radiator is on. It's fine when radiator is off.

    The TRV is too close the radiator, with radiant heat affects the temperature measurement.

    I was browsing through the Tado community forum & found these 90 degree offset adaptors by OvenTrop.

    Not cheap but they are cheaper than getting plumber to change TRV mounting orientation




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    If your trv valve body is compression fitting both ends, shutting off the lockshield valve on the other rad end, and loosening both compression nuts, would let you deftly pull off the valve rotate and push on again with little water loss, nothing a big towel wouldn't cope with.

    If your system is pressurised, not a gravity attic head tank, then it might get messy!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 auvngv



    @deezell Many thanks for the speedy response and advice. One more question I also have two wired thermostats Currently the wired are turned up to 30c and I have two wireless Climote thermostats set to desired temp that now control the zones. Any advice re these?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    OK, I misread your description. I assumed your two zones were HW and CH, but it's two CH, and HW is gravity. I assume then you have zone valves for the CH, (though they may pumped zones). If this is the case then you can have semi independent HW by calling the boiler with both CH stats turned down, so you can have HW in the summer without any CH. Did you use the climote HW timer to this end? Or did you just have 2 CH control, with HW only when CH was on. Did you previously have a three zone controller with a HW timer, which heated HW only when the CH zones were off?.An extra plumbed zones valve will give you 3 independent zones, and you have a few options to replace the climote stats with hive, or other brand wireless, but also to replace the old wired stats with wired Tado. Either way you'll need a CH+HW kit and an extra add on CH stat. Just check if your CH zones have motorised valves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 auvngv


    Yes so we have two CH zones - Up / down and HW gravity. In Summer we would simply turn on the "heating" with the two CH zones turned timers turned off so neither kicked in so we could have HW without CH. The reason I'm thinking about a controller that would support a 3rd zone (HW only) is to run another cable to hot press to control HW independent of CH all year round - but if I can't achieve this I'll live with a winter / summer CH setting. Both CH have motorised valves.

    By the looks of it then this starter kit

    Tado V3+ Smart Wired Heating Thermostat Starter Kit - Screwfix

    plus another Tado Smart Wired Heating Thermostat - Screwfix

    will sort out the CH wired zones and get me of Climote subscription.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    To give an update on the tado I discovered over Christmas there was a two year warranty on it.

    On the 29th December I picked up a new replacement and fitted it on the 30th.

    All was well till tonight when I found the house getting way too warm. Turns out I have the same problem with this one, the boiler isn't turning off.

    Not sure what I can do now apart from refit the EPH R17. I'd imagine there's no point getting another tado.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    Did you check if the Com and NO terminals are permanently closed together even when off? It sounds like they're being welded together from excessive current load, if your Tado is actually powering the boiler when it's just meant to signal it to on. You'll need to address that. The relays in the EPH are designed for a much heavier current.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    @deezell thanks once again for your reply I didn't check anything tonight I just turned it off at the fusebox.

    Hopefully I'll get a chance tomorrow night to have a look at it.

    What would cause excessive current and I wonder why the first tado lasted a year.

    The only thing that changed was a new pump fitted in the boiler



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    I think I explained this before. If your boiler is supplied with Live only from the controller,EPH or Tado, it effectively powered up from OFF every time a controller calls for heat. That can be quite a surge of current. Modern boilers have a seperate Live in terminal, so the boiler is in standby at all times, and the switched live from the controller calling for heat is connected to a seperate terminal in the boiler. This is just a signalling terminal to the boiler's own control board, which powers the burner, the blower and fuel pump, the igniter, fuel valve, and power out to the circulation pump. If the boiler permanent live and switched live in terminals are supplied with just the single live coming from the tado, that can creates a surge current which can spark the relay contacts in the Tado and stick them together. This might be what is happening your Tado receiver. If you turn down the Tado off from the app, and the small firing indicator light on the receiver goes out, yet the boiler keeps burning, then there is an issue with the relay. I'll have to read back a bit to refresh. You have a tado star and a receiver. You wired the Tado receiver in place of the EPH? You have the Tado thermostat located in some area and you have it programmed to operate the receiver properly? Do I recall you were just using the Tado receiver as a timer? I'll read back.

    Post edited by deezell on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    Ok sorry you did explain that before my mistake. Would it be easy for an electrician to check if that's the case. I'm still curious to know how the original tado worked for a year.

    The EPH was replaced by a hub controller and that was replaced by Tado. I'm using it properly, it's controlled by a wireless thermostat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    Yes, an electrician could check if the boiler has a permanent live or is just switched live fired. He could also check if the CH relay terminals in the Tado, (Com and NO) are permanently fused together. If you operate the Tado receiver from the app, on and off, you should see the indicator light on the receiver light up and go off, this one below.Test this out.

    20240110_092322.jpg




  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 6,527 Mod ✭✭✭✭sharkman


    Could I ask if anyone has had a problem with Tado calling for flame constantly although the app says its not ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    Is this a wired stat or a wireless with receiver? See @Banjo Carney above who's had this twice,but his boiler is continuously on. He had the first tado replaced under warranty, but without establishing the failure reason ( software, comms freeze, or stuck relay).

    A little overrun can occur when the temperature is reduced below target, I'd sometimes notice the lag between dropping the stat temperature below current and the boiler ceasing burning. Same goes for the opposite, turn it up and their can be lag of multiple seconds before it fires. I've never had a situation where the boiler just continued firing past the set temp for long periods. Note that is easy to accidentally push the stat app into manual boost while handling the phone. If you then close the screen. You won't really know that the set temperature is being exceeded.

    There is also the situation where the Tado calculates the rate of cooling, and will fire in modulated bursts on a descending temperature graph, even though the current temp is higher that set. This prevents actual temperature falling much below set, as it charges the system with bursts of hot flow sufficient to arrest the drop in temperature before it passes the setpoint. All very smart. Heres an example,

    Screenshot_20240110-225855_tado.jpg

    At 13.52 boiler fires briefly though temperature of 20.3° is above setpoint of 20°.

    In a manual mode, boosting time from turning up the wall stat may not be on a timer, but until the next scheduled change, which could be hours ahead. If you go to the graph, you can run your finger along the temperature line, and you'll see the set and actual temperatures, and where it was scheduled, away mode, manual, and loss of connection to the server. This might explain why sometimes the boiler keeps firing, generally the stat goes into manual mode for an Internet or server outage, and stays on the last setting until manually changed . Loss of comms between the extension kit receiver and the bridge and stat may also be at fault.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    I was away for a couple of days so the back boiler was put to work.

    Checked out the tado there and all seems good with it seems to be working as it should be.

    So I've no idea why it was acting up the other night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    Over the last month the tado has regularly overshot the temperature it's set to. It has gone 2 degrees over several times. I don't know if it was left alone if would keep going up.

    Turning off the boiler at the trip switch is the only way to turn the heating off. When the trip switch is reset everything works fine for another couple of days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 thosmcdon


    Did you get anywhere with that?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 284 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    No it continued to do it. Obviously it hasn't been in use now for the last while so it's been a case of out of sight out of mind. It was a real pain last winter when I wasn't at home so I may look at an alternative or just go back to the ordinary one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    You can see on the tado if its calling for heat. The three wavy bars will be lit, 1 to 3 depending on the level of on/off modulation. If the 'Inside now' temperature exceeds the programmed temperature these will be off. If the boiler is continuing to fire though the stat is off, then there is some reason Switched Live is being sent to the boiler. If the Tado relay or the extension kit CH relay are still closed, though the wavy lines/led on the ext. Kit show off, then either the Tado contacts are fused together, some other contacts down the line say in a zone valve, or else there is some other old stat or timer that hasn't been disabled and is still influencing the boiler firing. On the image below the 'inside now' is well over set, because its a warm day, and the house heats beyond the CH setting, which is never exceeded at this time of year. In winter, the set is sometimes exceeded when the solid fuel stove is burning, this is unregulated and can heat the room beyond the CH setting. Again, the CH will remain inactive until actual room temperature cools below set. Also, check that you haven't an offset programmed into your settings. This is used where a poorly located stat doesn't accurately reflect room temperature (mounted on a cold outer wall or near an exterior vent).

    Screenshot_20240830-094035_tado.jpg
    Post edited by deezell on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭PMC83


    hey folks,

    Just wondering if anyone could recommend a decent generic controller and someone that can install?

    We've had Hub Control for the last 2 years and a bit of a disaster, terrible customer service and so on, left without heat for 2 weeks last year as they hadn't someone to come out and fix it.

    I'm basically looking for a controller that isn't tied to a specific company and any electrician / boiler guy can service. After the Hub Control experience I really don't want to be at the mercy of one specific crowd company when it comes to fixes / maintenance.

    Thanks



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Any wifi stat will be tied up to some external server.

    You shouldn't have been without heat. Your regular service person should have been able to provide a temporary workaround.

    I've installed mostly Hive (did a few sonoff and other generic wifi plugs) and have been mostly trouble free.

    Just had 1 customer whose Hive "hub" gave up the ghost. That took me a callout and a half hour to work out the problem.

    BTW I always tell my customers that once I install and get it working, any callback will be charged at regular rates. I've had too many that were expected to be done for free when it was either a wifi problem, someone messing with configuration or server problem Etc.. All outside of my control.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    Understand that your heating system is generic right up to the two wires that are connected to the Climote thermostat switch or relay. That switch could literally be a wall light switch, turning the heat on or off manually. In many installs its a simple electro mechanical timer, or a mechanical bimetallic strip thermostat. When you move to the next level, electronic thermostats, or timers, or both combined in the one wall unit, with or without Internet access and an app, nothing from the two wires back to the boiler and pumps and radiators has anything to do with a specific thermostat vendor. With some WiFi enabled thermostats with generic apps selling for under €50 on amazon, there is no room for maintenance on these. if a problem happens in the thermostat to WiFi to Internet to app ecosystem, you just reconfigure or chuck it out. Even reputable brands such as Tado are sold for as little as €100 occasionally, and any handy person can connect the two wires to the wired wall stat (or the receiver if a wireless model) or to other wireless only model like Hive. Any problem past the switch/relay contacts in the stat or receiver is an IT issue, and calling out a heating engineer is probably going to cost more that the entire kit cost. If you have to pay a tradesman to do what is essentially home automation gadget configuration, the time cost will far exceed the materials cost. You can buy a Tado wired starter kit and have it running and closing it's relay, showing up on the app, programmed with schedules set, all without connecting a single mains electrical cable, other than plugging in the internet bridge power supply. The stat will run on its batteries, and you can watch and hear it click on and off as its timer or thermostat calls for heat. After this is proven to work, it's only a short job for a competent trade or diy person to connect the stat in place of your existing Climote or other wired device. You wouldn't bring your smartwatch to a watchmaker if it had issues in its ecosystem connectivity, similarly for smart thermostat devices, the mains electrical switch in them is rarely the problem when you have operating issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 justbmad


    Hi, hope some one can help. I have a Horstmann Channel Plus XL 21 with 2 channel programmer. We installed a Hub Controller when they came out because of an offer they had which is now ended. We still have the Hub Controller for turning on heating & the Horstmann is used for the hot water. We want to change back to having one unit to control both heating & hot water as the Hub Controller gives issues time to time. Is it easy to revert to the original setup? the guy from Hub Controller disconnected the heating from the Horstmann unit when installing the Hub Controller but I presume it can be reconnected somehow. We were also thinking of replacing the Horstmann Channel Plus XL 21 with a newer unit EPH 2 Channel R27-HW.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Should be easy enough to reinstate it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    Two wires, one for the CH that was moved to the Hub, one for the HW that is still in the Hortsmann. An easy competent diy to restore CH to the Hortsmann, but if you're going to pay a sparks to do this, then have a new smart controller/ reciver at the ready. The Tado wireless starter Kit is ideal, or the Hive Thermostat with HW timing. Both have a receiver that wires in place of your current Hub/Horstmann, giving you full control of CH time/temperature schedules ad HW timing, plus a number of smart features and home automation integration with Google, Alexa etc. The wireless wall thermostat can be placed optimally to measure home temperature, living room, hall or other general reception area. As per my previous post for the wired Tado CH Thermostat kit, you can bench test and Internet configure theseCH/HW kits by powering up their receiver with a temporary mains lead, the thermostat is battery powered, the Internet interface or bridge is a simple plug in. All pairing and configuration can be done, the App tested and the reciver operation status indicators and relays observed working before the HW/CH wires are transferred and the receiver fixed to the wall. It's a stress free method, your existing system is still in control, until you are assured that all the niggly wireless and Internet connectivity has been enabled, and you can call in the sparks for the last bit of installation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,299 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Hi all, I feel like this has been answered here, but want to make sure I am understanding correctly.

    My parents have a hub controller. They got it mainly so they could turn heating on or off without having to go upstairs to the boiler. The controller is on the wall just outside hot press. It's never been the best device, but did work for their needs. But at some point since last winter and now the device lost sync with their phones and the controller doesn't show any pairing code (even though they have paid for this). I've reached out to hun control people to see if they can advise, but I was wondering about replacing it for them.

    From what I can see, there is 1 insulated wire going into the side of the controller, but I can't see anything else beyond that without pulling it off the wall. Is there a plug and play replacement they could get? Ideally one they can use without having to trek upstairs, and ideally where they can set a schedule for the day/week. Based on experience with hub, they don't mind using an app if one is available but would be slow paying for one...

    Cheers.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭deezell


    A tado wired starter kit thermostat is a straight swap on the wall for the Hub. Two wire connection. That's all you need.

    If your hub replaced a previous rotary mechanical thermostat, it's possible the Hub is wired without a neutral wire, charging itself from parasitic leakage current to the boiler, a clever feature of hub (it's only unique feature). If the Hub was installed with full mains power, a wireless stat such as a Hive could be used, the stat located anywhere, living room for example, while the small receiver will replace the hub on the wall.

    How is their HW provided. When you say' went upstairs to turn on the boiler', was there a timer unit in a press? Was this a single or dual timer. Is it still in use for HW and can they set it to heat HW only. It may be a simple matter to install CH and HW smart control if they already had /have a two zone timer, but the simplest answer is the first short paragraph.



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