Hub Controller options

Prefect_1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121365159#Comment_121365159

Thanks a million, it wont be me installing, not going near gas boilers in anyway, would be an hours job for a sparks ?

WestWicklow1

@deezell, thank you very much for sharing your expertise, and putting so much time and effort into this thread. It's very, very much appreciated.

You may have answered for my setup already and if so just say so and I'll go looking.

I have a kerosene condensing boiler in a boiler house attached to my garage, remote to my house (bungalow).

I have just one zone which is radiators and hot water. The only controls are TRVs on every radiator and a manual valve on the inlet to the heating coil of the copper cylinder. There is a thermostat in the sitting room but we don't use it as such. It's set to max and we control the timing of the boiler with a Horstmann Centaurplus C17, and the TRVs for temperature control in the rooms.

I had the Hub Controller but removed it and put the Horstmann back in place even way before they introduced the subscription.

I'd like to replace the Horstmann with a Tado setup to include Tado TRVs. I definitely want to be able to access it remotely to switch it on and off outside of whatever timings I've already set on it. I'd also like to be able to turn on and off various rooms remotely, and have a second zone on the Tado for the HW cylinder (I'll put a motorised valve on it in the future).

Any hope you can give me your recommendations, please?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121367683#Comment_121367683

Depends in the sparks. It will help if he has these instructions. The Tado receiver (ext. kit) just requires a wire pair from it's CH relay terminal, CH COM and CH NO, to terminals 1 and 3 in the Vokera. The link between 1 and 3 may already be removed if the internal time clock is connected, though the instructions in the manuals diagrams are a bit confusing on some pages. If its there, remove it. These are the vokera terminals.

Tado ext kit.

Vokera is then just turned on fully, and the Tado opens and closes its CH relay to fire it. It would be useful to have the ext kit powered and mounted and the wireless stat paired so you could operate the ext kit relay via the app, and watch the CH indicator lamp going on and off as you turn the temperature setting on the app up and down.

This is a link to the Vokera manual. The sparks may decide to uninstall the timer clock. (Pg34)

mynute_10se_14se_20se_installation_and_servicing_instructions.pdf

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121367931#Comment_121367931

A Tado wireless starter kit, with the receiver a simple drop in for your Horstmann. The stat can be placed in your preferred location, hall or living. Smart TRVs can added as and when, even a few are useful to keep lesser used rooms off or at lower temperatures until needed. The receiver also has a HW relay which could be used to set times for the HW motorised valve you intend to fit. This will enable a CH only schedule, or CH plus HW.

Should you wish to have the opposite, HW only and CH off, you would need either a valve on the CH branch from the boiler, if the plumbing circuits make this possible, or else smart TRVs on all radiators so they could be turned off enabling only HW heating.

Would I be right in saying the Hub controller was sited where the Horstmann was/is? Is this in a utility area, not a main reception area, e.g, hall or livingroom. The hub controller houses the thermostat, so should always be located where you would wish the temperature to be controllable. I've read many cases where the installers simply stuck them anywhere they had easy access to the boiler connection, usually replacing the existing boiler timer in a utility room, and in one case they placed it inside the boiler housing on the floor. Cowboy stat installed by cowboys.

Demarpfry

I had a hub controller up to last week which worked well since 2019. Last Wednesday the hub controller tripped the circuit breaker. My boiler couldn't be turned on so we had no heating/hot water! There was no back up service and when you ring their number all you get is a message that someone will call you back. I phoned the number early on Thursday morning and of course nobody got back to me so I then sent an email to their support service. They sent an Engineer out on Friday morning and he tried to fit another hub controller but when he connected it to the wires of the original box it blew the box and again tripped the circuit breaker. He then said we would need to get an Electrician to look at it. When I contacted an Electrician he said we would have to get in a heating engineer. I got in touch with the company who manufactured the boiler and they gave me the name of their service engineer. He came on Monday morning and in five minutes he had the heating working again (he disconnected the wiring that the original hub controller engineer had put in and connected the boiler to the original heating control switch). He said there was absolutely nothing wrong with the boiler or the original heating controls. The Engineer from Hub Controller came out this morning and told my husband that he couldn't do anything to fix the hub controller in case the heating would be turned off again so his suggestion to my husband was to "get in touch around St Patrick's Day next year and he would come and try to fix the hub!" I am not at all pleased with this as I now have 3 wires sticking out of the wall in my hall and no hub to control my heating. He advised my husband that he would cancel my subscription.

I sent another email to the support service this 1.30p.m. today - no reply. Not very good customer service.

Could anyone recommend a replacement for the hub controller because I don't want to have a repeat performance of this debacle.

Thanks.

See below the original control box for my boiler. My boiler is a Grant Euroflame oil boiler.

WestWicklow1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121368685#Comment_121368685

Thank you very much @deezell

Is it this...

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-v3-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-white/141kt

Is the receiver an extra and what's its function, or does it come with the starter kit? I don't see any mention of it.

Banjo Carney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369494#Comment_121369494

The receiver is on the left of the picture

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121368980#Comment_121368980

It sounds like your problem is in the wiring to the hub controller location in the hall, which the electrician bypassed by wiring your original CTC timer (located next to the boiler?) directly to the boiler. The fact that a replacement HC tripped the breaker indicates either an earth leakage or a short, independent of the controller or the boiler. This should have been an easy task for the electrician to trace.

There doesn't seem any point in connecting anything to the hall wires, until they are checked end to end back to the boiler. A simpler solution is to replace the CTC with a wireless thermostat, Tado or Hive. The receiver of the wireless stat will wire directly in place of the CTC, and the wireless stat, which is battery operated and unwired, can be placed anywhere that best suits your needs, or wall mounted, even in the Hall over the three unwanted wires which can be cut back and taped up.

I have to say that it doesn't inspire confidence when someone with the title of 'Engineer' gives up and says he needs an electrician. Maybe a two week course in swapping out heating timers gets you a B.Eng or a B.Sc.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121369494#Comment_121369494

As @Banjo Carney sez, the receiver is the box on the left, the middle one is the wireless stat, which can be wall mounted or sat in an optional wee stand, the yoke on the right is the Internet bridge which plugs into your router with a short ethernet cable (provided), and communicates wirelessly with the stat and receiver (AKA the extension kit). It's a steal at the moment in Screwfix.

The function of the receiver is to provide the wiring terminals for the wireless stat. In your case the receiver replaces the Horstmann, with the wires from your Horstmann baseplate going to the receiver N (Blue), L (Brown), the link wire from L to Ch COM, and the green/yellow wire to Ch NO. It's not the cleverest thing to use the green/yellow wire to carry the switched Live to the boiler, as green/yellow cable is reserved for earth connections, so no marks to whoever wired in your Horstmann.

Demarpfry

Thanks Deezell,

Got this email from Hub Controls Ltd. this afternoon:

"We've canceled the subscription now. I can send your information to our installation partner to take a look at the system, reinstall the Hub Controller, and reactivate the subscription from January 2024.

Let us know if you want us to do that."

I am about to tell them "no thanks". I am very nervous now about getting a Hive or a Tado as I don't want to be without my heating/hot water again and these people have made me very wary of so called "Engineers". The man that came to fix the Hub Controller told my husband that he was an "Electrical Engineer". He never looked at the wiring of the CTC timer at all. It's as if he knew nothing about electrical wiring! I really regret paying a subscription to them for almost one year. One thing we can't understand about all this is how this thing worked for four years before it tripped the circuit breaker - that is what is puzzling us.

I will try to source someone who knows what they are doing before I get a Hive or a Tado installed. Hopefully I will be able to get someone who actually understands wiring to install same.

Thanks again for your help.

 

fitzparker

I have a Hub Controller.

What would be a cheap replacement that has "smart features" i.e an app to turn it on or off

My previous heating controls had a hot water button and a heating button to be able to turn on one or the other, now hub controller turns both.

There is a thermostat in our hall.

I saw this was only €60 - will it do?

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/hive-mini-wireless-heating-smart-thermostat-hubless-white-grey/681PV?tc=AI8&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmNeqBhD4ARIsADsYfTekgylMEEQt52dAs-Cmqy2tJqahdlC7Ujblx0QC0aEture7Cp5WPfYaAnFpEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121374128#Comment_121374128

Yet another example of outrageous Hub marketing and installation, reducing a two zone ( independent CH and HW) to a single zone. The seperste zone wires are still there no doubt, probably joined in the HC. Your zones can be restored.

Either of these wireless kits with a CH and HW relay will replace the useless HUb Controller, have lots of smart features and app access through the Internet.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-v3-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-white/141kt

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/hive-mini-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-white-grey/901pv

The hive you linked does not have the internet bridge/hub, OR HW relay. Its an add on for a second CH zone if you had a secondupstairs stat. The one above has the Internet hub box, and the receiver has the connections for both CH and HW. They are great value in screwfix at the moment, particularly the Tado.

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363718#Comment_121363718

Hi Deezel,

Thanks for your help, can I ask another question please?

Am I correct that if I buy the following one, I can put the white box on the left where existing hub is using the existing connection to the boiler, and then place the black box elsewhere to record the temperature?

The current hub is in the same room as a dryer so it’s often warmer than the rest of the house.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-v3-black-edition-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-black/701kg

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376502#Comment_121376502

You're correct. The wired connections from the hub C go into the receiver, aka the extension kit. The wireless thermostat is located optimally in a living room or reception area, measuring the temperature where you actually are. It's battery operated, so can be wall mounted or placed in a portable stand.

The Hub Controller incompetence story increases. The HC is a thermostat, it was meant to be located in a living area, but was invariably installed where the original boiler timer was. So to hotpress, utility room, and inside an indoor boiler cabinet (!) I can now add laundry room. Absolute cowboys

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377307#Comment_121377307

Thanks so much. I originally wanted them to put it in the hall, in place of a manual thermostat I had there, but they refused, as it would “be affected by the sunlight through the window near it” . (It’s at the dark side of the house,)

They insisted on putting it in the room with the boiler, and removing the original control. Taking the original control with them. The hub then stopped working and when they sent a second person to correct it he moved it to the utility room outside the room where the boiler was.

So the only way I can now switch on the heating is their useless interface. Going to order the tado and enjoy throwing the hub into the bin.

If this was face to Face I would certainly owe you a coffee, but if there is a charity you support let me know and I’ll make a donation.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377386#Comment_121377386

To think of the EU money they extracted with their damn lies and statistics, blood boiling.

Friends of St Lukes, or wait till Daffodil day, things always look brighter in Spring, (and your heating bill lessens!).

Moving2017

Hi again,

I installed the Tado, it paired to the wifi and the thermostat correctly, but it isn't calling the heating when I press the heating on button or the use the app to say switch on the heating. Has anyone had this issue?

Thanks in advance.

Banjo Carney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121413032#Comment_121413032

Screenshot_2023-11-24-20-08-45-119_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg

Do you have it wired as above

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121413868#Comment_121413868

Yeah I did, turns out it was a broadband issue.

its nice to be away from hub controller!

Banjo Carney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425069#Comment_121425069

Glad you got sorted

Banjo Carney

Hi my tado has stopped controlling my heating for some reason. The bridge, wireless controller and thermostat are all connected properly. Doesn't matter what the setting in the app or the thermostat is the boiler keeps going.

I presume it's more likely it's a problem with the Tado than the boiler itself. Only way I could turn the heating of is knock the switch off at the fusebox. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523539#Comment_121523539

This is often caused by a faulty zone valve.

Banjo Carney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523574#Comment_121523574

Hi thanks for your reply I appreciate it there are no zones it's just heating and water on/off

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523656#Comment_121523656

You'll need to check the Tado receiver, see if the CH pilot lamp comes on and off as you turn the heat up or down. If its staying on constantly, then there's some issue in the receiver. If it shows off, check to voltage at the CH NO terminal. If this is live all the time, disconnect it and check that the boiler stops firing. If the NO terminal remains live when the app and the receiver CH indicator are showing off, then it can only be the contacts in the relay have become fused together.

CH on Indicator Lamp

This can happen in the receiver is supplying a directly powered boiler. Older oil boilers were fired by just turning all power on or off to the boiler. This can also occur where boilers with a seperate Switched Live input and permanent live supply are incorrectly wired, with the SL from the stat or wireless receiver actually powering up the boiler, and not just signalling a permanently powered boiler to fire. The current surge in this type of wiring would tax any relay contacts, but would not have bothered a heavier mechanical timer.

Banjo Carney

@deezell thank you for the detailed response as usual. I will check what you suggested in the first half of your post.

I have no idea which situation in the last part of post is the most likely reason so for that part I'll need an electrician.

Is it safe to continue using the switch in the fusebox to turn the heating on and off for now. It probably won't get sorted this side of Christmas. Thanks again.

Banjo Carney

https://fahyplumbingsupplies.com/products/eph-r27-electronic-tmer?variant=42008585535647&currency=EUR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4Y-sBhC6ARIsAGXF1g7tTLicBdq_owryCG-WrxUj1EPDbVbXrHFKwrguGYBNzUvcKyHXvsMaAomUEALw_wcB

l actually have one of these in the house somewhere. What would be the wiring for this using the three wires connected to the tado receiver.

It's not the one in the photo I have it's the r17 single zone one.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524353#Comment_121524353

Add a link from L to COM, then connect the switched live boiler wire to 4, 'ON' also known as Normally Open 'NO', just to add to the confusion ! This should sort you out, unless the fault lies in the boiler itself. Do you know if the boiler has a permanent live? Does it have an indicator lamp or display which indicates it's powered even when not firing? It's possible that the boiler has a faulty relay and fires up as soon as it is powered, regardless of the switched live coming in from the controller. You'll have to disconnect just the Tado to test this theory.

Banjo Carney

@deezell sorry for the stupid question does the link go from L to 1

What exactly do I need to do to check for a faulty boiler relay. Thanks

deezell

Yes, COM is terminal1. To check if the Tado is at fault for the boiler being permanently on, simply turn off the power to the Tado receiver only, but not to the boiler, or remove the wire from the Tado ext kit receiver contact labelled NO. If the boiler stops firing continuously, then this shows that the swirched live from the Tado is always on. It's easier though to just test this with a phase testing screwdriver. If the CH symbol on the receiver is not lit. (The wavy lines), yet the CH terminal NO in the receiver is live, it is calling the boiler to fire when it shouldn't. If you power off the Tado receiver and the boiler keeps firing continuously, then the fault is definitely in the boiler.

Have you figured out if the boiler has it's own power from a switch or wall wiring point? I was trying to explain that the live from the Tado or even an EPH should only be operating a relay inside the boiler to fire it, not actually powering the entire boiler. Only ancient boilers were wired this way, and needed a good surge of power to get going, which could stick the relay on a controller.

I was also trying to explain that even a modern boiler meant to have its own permanent wired in power while idle, could be incorrectly wired with it's power coming from the controller. This can easily happen when an older on/off boiler, often in a garage or outer building, is replaced by a new model which requires permanent live in as well as the switched live from the controller. If the only live in was the Switched Live from an original mechanical switch/timer, (maybe later replaced by an EPH), the installer might just wire up the newer boiler with this one switched live, meaning everytime your controller calls the boiler to fire, it has to power it up as well. This would very likely fuse the contacts of a modern controller. Have a sparks read this and check out your boiler wiring. Like I say, it could be an internal boiler fault also, but first check if the Tado is sending out live all the time from CH terminal labelled NO, the only one wired up I assume.

deezell

BTW, take care when doing any testing with mains live. You absolutely need to have a phase testing screwdriver to tip off contacts on controllers to see if they're live, and to check that it's safe to disconnect. Its possible though unlikly that a live from a powered boiler fault could be present on the switched live wire on the controller NO even with the controller only powered off. If the SL to the boiler somehow was crossed to the boiler permanent live, the boiler would fire continuously, but also would send live back down the wire to the controller. So if you power off only the controller to test, you should alway tip the wired contacts to check that they're not still live from a crossed connection elsewhere. If you're reinstalling the EPH, knock off all the power to the boiler and the controller.