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China v Taiwan. The next big conflict?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    1. Belarussian (which is just Russia right?) president made the quote
    2. Putin himself boasted about couple of weeks
    3. Leaked Russian intelligence documents shown a week was the expectation
    4. Russian propaganda tv hosts on video claiming days for the war

    In all cases the arrogance on display is extraordinary.

    However if you want to argue against the fact that Russia was too overconfident when starting a war despite all the evidence to support this, well continue to do so, only make yourself a laughing stock like these Russian propagandists on videos linked above.



  • Registered Users Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    For China to successfully invade Taiwan they would have to send one or more US carrier fleets to bottom of sea

    The moment that happens any talk about geopolitical importance of Taiwan goes out the window as it would become a war of revenge for thousands of US servicemen dead from right across the US

    A total war to wipe out China as no us politician would be able to say “oh well, nothing we can do because them Chinese have nukes”

    We have seen how the US over reacted to 9/11 and how they reacted to Pearl Harbour, nothing short of unconditional surrender would stop them by then. The country is politically not capable of anything else as anyone calling for a stop be quieted. Any counties helping China would be simply told that you are either with us or against us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Taiwan is part of China, why would it be a conflict? This was agreed under the One China policy years ago and recognised by US etc.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    why would it be a conflict?

    Because if PRC soldiers try to land on Taiwan, Taiwanese soldiers will shoot them. It's rather basic.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Actually the US "acknowleges" the 'One China' policy. All part of the subtle concept that is "strategic ambiguity".......



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Apparently the Taiwanese have a supersonic cruise missile with a range of up to 2000 km called the “Ching Tien”.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    For China to successfully invade Taiwan they would have to send one or more US carrier fleets to bottom of sea

    This a a near impossible task.

    You first have to find the carrier group, And then when you do, you need to know the exact location, speed and heading of the carrier (This is the hardest bit), You then need to break through many layers of defenses and finally land a big enough hit on the carrier to sink it. Note that these ships have an incredible amount of redundancy and fail safes and very difficult to sink.

    Most anti-ship missiles China has carry a 300kg to 400kg warhead. (500kg max) that is not going to be enough to sink a Carrier, like not even close.

    In 1987 the USS Stark (And OHP Frigate) was hit by 2 Exocet missiles (2x 165kg warheads) and although the ship was heavily damaged it did not sink and was eventually fully repaired. A Nimitz/Ford class carrier is over 25 times the size of an OHP class Frigate.

    Torpedoes' "might" do the job but the Chinese Subs would need to get within 30km to even get a shot off and that's not going to happen in war time with Destroyer and Air cover constantly looking for them around the carrier group. Even then, a 250kg warhead probably will not be enough to damage the keel enough. What's likely to happen is that as soon as the Chinese Sub launches it's Torpedo, it will give away it's position and immediately be destroyed by the patrolling Seahawks, thus rendering the Torpedo dead (They're wire guided)

    Short of using a Nuclear weapon, it's near impossible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    They would also have to preemptively hit US forces at Guam - which is war with the US.

    Taking Taiwan would be a massive ask even for China, would need to be an amphibious assault which given the geography of the area is excruciatingly difficult. Assuming they did manage that they would have to hold off US and Allied forces long enough to complete the take over and then hold it.

    I do not see this happening - the PLA just does not have the experience

    Also - it would be like playing Russian roulette for XI. He has one shot, he even pulls the trigger he has to win or he is toast and could potentially take the communist party with him.

    That being said, in a few years when semiconductor supply is not heavily dependant on Taiwan, similar to the change in relations with Saudi Arabia, once you are not important enough the US may not care what happens.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Presidential and legislative elections being held in Taiwan this Saturday. The DPP candidate (William Lai) is currently leading in the polls for president. China, not surprisingly, is warning against the election of the DPP candidate, accusing him of being a "Taiwanese separatist".



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,045 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Does ask the question, would it be in Taiwan's strategic interest to force the issue by declaring independence outright? It's a pretty ridiculous situation overall, and China ought to have been called on their bullshit long ago.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    A Chinese commentators view on this lads war-mongering smear of China ‘bullying’ the Philippines (12:20):

    You do know that both Vietnam and Philippines have also occupied a number of disputed islands in the South China Sea and built military installations there right? The dispute is also among ASEAN members, not just with China. But Western media will never tell you that of course..


    Even as a superpower, China is still trying its best to negotiate with its smaller neighbours on territorial issues, and even shared exploration. If the USA was the Philippines' neighbour, it would've been regime-changed, have a U.S. puppet installed or colonised.

    18:49 “This is old school containment, its hard not to see it when you look at this map.”

    I couldn’t help noticing this awkward phrasing – reading between the lines, this implies to me that an obedient citizen of the US or an allied country should be doing their utmost not to see what is before them or doing their utmost to misunderstand the situation. However, such a reverential citizen must unfortunately & sadly admit failure in this case and is compelled by the clarity of US aggression to admit that this is in fact old school containment. When one lives in gaslight central (the West), this is probably as close to what passes for neutral as it gets.

    “This (US) strategy could provoke the very strategy it is trying to deter”

    This is totally wrong.  The US strategy is 100% aggressive provocation (recklessly gambling with a direct US/China war IF it miscalculates). It has already gambled & risked nuclear war in its engineered proxy war against Russia. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    "Semiconductor news (Sep 2023): SMIC 7nm N+2 process confirmed, produced in China, for the world. All the core components in China's EUV lithography machines are ready, the prototype is being tested. The US have lost the technology war that they started"

    However,

    Semiconductor isn't the main U.S. goal; TSMC is already being transplanted to Arizona. U.S. main goal is to keep Taiwan as an American fortress & a dagger on China's side. Together with Japan, South Korea & Philippines, Taiwan would form an offensive U.S. chain around China.


    The U.S. knows that the peaceful reunification between China & Taiwan will eventually happen. The pull of China's growing prosperity & Taiwan's cultural/familial ties to the mainland makes such a union inevitable. So the U.S. is hell bent on preventing it.


    The U.S. does not care about Taiwan. U.S. strategy is simply to prevent China from having Taiwan... with the aim of turning the island into a U.S. fortress/unsinkable carrier. If that fails, then the U.S. would rather Taiwan be turned into rubble through war with China. -same Chinese commentator

    Will be watching these elections on Saturday very closely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,266 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    There is so much BS in these posts you could fill a silo with it.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Seems we've a few recently registered posters popping up in CA with alternative views to reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    I'm sure - at least you can agree with the guy in the youtube video that this IS old school containment.

    He thinks it is.

    Are you disagreeing with him also?



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Bloomberg, which did not name its sources,

    Funny stuff. Anonymous source says X Y Z which always happens to align with & support current US geo-political war mongering.

    That is so convenient, no?

    Just a normal Monday in "Western reality" land.

    Just like any article in the free market press (as opposed to a free press) that claims for the 57,386th time that the Chinese economy is about to collapse. The latest hyper-ventilating is about a huge property company that is being allowed to go to the wall by the government there (like should have been done here with Anglo). They are doing this to correct the housing market. In the Western press it is presented as a housing bubble collapse and foreboding a total collapse of the Chinese economy.

    None of this is news reporting, it is gas-lighting. Same with the military 'reporting'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Modulok


    I worry that we are in the years immediately prior to WW3.

    • The Russian collapse hasn't materialized and Russia is now better placed than all of Europe to wage war
    • The Iranians have the houthis at work clogging up shipping, stretching the US navy thinner than would be desirable
    • It's a great time for China to blockade Taiwan from a military standpoint. The west is preoccupied with Ukraine and Israel; the press is full of reports of congressional testimony that the US frequently loses a hypothetical war with China as often as not; and there is widespread concern that US weapons stockpiles are pitiful. Twenty years of deindustrialization coming home to roost, not just in the US but in Europe too.
    • National solidarity in the west is so eroded by the collapse of nationalist values, the place is full of people who don't really like the countries they live in, whether they are unassimilated immigrants, post-modern lefty types, or divisive race baiters

    It's chilling to read how the populace in 1912, 1913 right up to August 1914 couldn't imagine a war after many decades of peace, how everyone believed that the world was too interconnected to erupt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    Chad Scott is a good source for info on current military concerns around the world. His background is logistics and artillery. Here are some videos he made on the China-Taiwan situation.

    https://gemoo.com/tools/upload-video/share/603336743792947200?codeId=v62NeaeN5xq9y&card=603336740089376768



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    What was that , China will be losing hundreds of thousands a day if not millions of men per day,

    He's talking through his hole



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dunno about China losing "hundred of thousands, millions of men per day". Would agree though about an oil blockade of China hurting them. They import over 70% of their oil, most of it by sea routes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Yeah already a given,but I don't see a blockade of the gulf either, they might be sanctioned but don't see countries queuing up to get involved



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    It's definitely NOT a great time for China to blockade Taiwan, their economy is limping along badly as is.

    Blockade is much easier said than done. Nobody paid attention to what happened to the Russian navy in the Black sea ? Even Taiwan can smash a blockade with missiles (not what it wants as that that is war but if China tries to isolate Taiwan , Taiwan armed forces will have no choice but to break the blockade) let alone other navies such as US who will not let it go unchallenged as they always insist to keep the Taiwan strait navigable.

    The US maintains full carrier groups to operate a war in Atlantic and Pacific simultaneously. If it needs to it can do that , the Pacific has its own chain of command.

    So a blockade has what end result ?

    It fails meanwhile causing massive economic damage. During the blockade shipping to and from China is also highly disrupted. Sanctions may be enacted.


    Or it results in a war with no clear end point with potential to become a world war, meanwhile causing massive economic damage, and China still have no way to actually invade Taiwan and take it over. They can wreck Taiwan but taking it over successfully is extremely difficult. Taiwan has far more capable defensive capabilities especially cruise and supersonic anti ship missiles and mining boats along with large air force and now drones . Ukraine wishes it has the weapons that Taiwan has .


    Unlike Ukraine the US is legally obligated to help Taiwan and both the Congress and the President and both parties are very clear they will support Taiwan in a conflict. The US has started to put marine groups back in the Philippines , Japan also has started putting forces on their islands close to Taiwan.


    Overall it's likely China will bide it's time until the KMT and associated parties could get back into power, probably not this year though. Many people in Taiwan would rather negotiate with China the problem is that China is very untrustworthy and everybody knows the Chinese don't respect weakness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    He's an expert not a terminally online contrarian like you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    That particular user has a thread in the CT forum that blames the US for Tianamen square... I think it's more gullibility tbh.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "but I don't see a blockade of the gulf either"

    Yeah, unlikely in the gulf itself, more likely at the places below. Serious choke points for maritime traffic.




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    No Just someone who doesn't believe stupid claims like 1 million Chinese soldiers will be killed in 48 hours,

    That's takes some believing along with the biggest invasion the world has ever seen I don't think so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    I'll take the word of an expert over an arrogant know it all with the worst case of dunning-kruger syndrome I've ever come across on boards anyday



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Sure you'd probably believe anything....


    Most low levels do



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,597 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Give it a rest with the name calling and petty digs @Gatling and @I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

    Take your argument to PM or ignore each other, otherwise you'll both be removed from the thread if you continue posting like that



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