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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,338 ✭✭✭jmreire



    First, as for the personal opinion's, you have never actually been in either Ukraine or Russia? your opinion is formed only from talking to Ukrainian refugees?? Correct? Hear say in other words? Now for sure that's about as far from an unbiased selection as you will get. My opinion is formed from personal experience, not hearsay. I've been in and out of Ukraine prewar, but I've lived in Putins Russia for the best part of 4 years. Any former USSR / Russian Federation state are ALL corrupt, bar none. Thats the bottom line breaking away from Russia, where Corruption is the norm. Since they left Russia Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Poland, have all thrived. And the main reason they have thrived is that they have massively reduced corruption levels. Ukraine and Moldova are in the process of joining, and when they do, they will follow the same track. But presently the corruption is still alive and well in Ukraine, but not to the same extent that it once was. The EU has it under the corruption microscope. No elimination of Corruption? No EU membership.

    As for not being willing to fight, I've worked in a lot of Countries that were at war, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Libya, Iran, Syria Chechnya, Sudan, Bosnia, etc. but I've never seen in any of them a willingness of 100% of the population to fight. Thats par for the course. So why out of a population of 40 million are more not volunteering to as you put it " lose their lives for him" They are not losing their lives for Zelensky, they are dying protecting homeland and Families ( and the EU) unlike all the Russians that are dying not for protecting their homeland and families, but for Putin's mad dream of empire, a man who would most definitely take the ride, and not ammunition. And he has now confiscated the passports of all military aged men, so they have very little or no chance of escaping his murderous clutches. Given a choice (and like most of the democratic world, I'd take Zelensky any day over Putin.

    And what do you suggest Glen? Hand Ukraine back to Putin?

    Post edited by jmreire on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,801 ✭✭✭amacca


    Mentioning Zelensky in the same sentence as "Putins Puppets" caught my attention..............



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    Glen123, Have you actually ever been to Ukraine? Have you ever visited any ex Soviet Union countries, seen the genocide & oppression of Soviet Russian imperialism in their many historical museums. Just because some Ukrainians speak Russian, doesn't mean they want to become ruled by Russia. Most people in Ireland speak English but don't want to be ruled by the British.

    Ukrainians speaking Russian also doesn't mean they are Russian as above. The rest of your posts on the subject of Ukraine are standard Tankie supporting Russian propaganda memes as constantly parroted by evil scumbags like Mick Wallace & Clare Daly . You obviously don't respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, it's internationally recognised legal borders & the rights of that nation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    The fact that millions of Russian speaking Ukrainians chose to go to Europe and elsewhere internally in Ukraine (and for that matter millions of Russian military aged men too) and not Russia tells you all you need to know about what they think of Russia

    Literally voting with their feet



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,674 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    I've heard of that paper purely because of the editor winning the Nobel Peace prize a few years ago. Didn't realise it was so easy to read in English. Thanks for that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭glen123


    If you are so curious to know, I lived there during USSR times as well as during independence. All my family and friends are still there. I am from the West of the country, Ukrainian speaking, so I am close enough to local opinions to know what really goes on as opposed to getting the info from X :) I am also regularly dealing with refugees from Ukraine in Ireland to know what they think.

    As to Russian propaganda, firstly I only read Ukrainian news and anything I quoted above came from those sources.

    Just because I don't like Zelensky and his policies and don't consider him a hero, makes me pro-Putin's Russia? :) Very logical :)


    @jmreire "And what do you suggest Glen? Hand Ukraine back to Putin?"

    Well, Zelensky could start with pulling his pals from Kvartal 95 and sending them to the front lines instead. Well, maybe not all (someone has to do comedy as well during New Years I suppose), but one or two would do.

    I am sure this would definitely help General Marchenko find the volunteers he is struggling to find to fight against Putin. But sure nobody is going to do that, something tells me :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,944 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    But sure nobody is going to do that, something tells me :)

    Nobody is going to do that, because it's not a serious suggestion. And if it is, it's not a helpful one.

    You're in a unique position here on this thread - a Ukrainian in Ireland. If you don't think Zelensky is doing the right thing, seriously, what do you think should be done? I think your actual opinion would be very interesting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    glen123, thanks for your reply, I was asked about the new Zelensky government, whilst in Kyiv a couple of months after he was elected, they were making financial reductions in pensions, schools, health care & other important spending to fund the military. I was asked what I thought, I said, trying to be forthright & maybe expecting a negative response, that it was only a matter of time before Putin invaded the rest of Ukraine, so they have no choice but to strengthen the military. Everyone was in agreement.

    Looking back I'm surprised Putin actually took so long to order the 2022 invasion.

    I do see Zelensky as a flawed hero, same as Churchill who was decisively voted out as soon as WW2 was over. Hopefully Ukraine has the chance in future to make such a decision if that's what the people eventually want. It probably won't happen whilst the conflict continues. Which is likely for a couple more years.

    My apologies for the Wallace / Daly comparison, I've been arguing with pro Putin Russian supporters & apologists for a long time in real life & online.



  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭glen123


    So? Many EU leaders were still courting him at the time, happy to give him hugs and kisses :) Are you going to accuse them too of being pro-Russian?

    This was my personal view at the time and most of it still stands actually. He could have taken it all in 2014 as Ukraine's army was a shambles. Unfortunately many in Russia do indeed support both Putin and even this war. Like I think I did say this before - you don't need Russian propaganda to believe into all these ukrainian nazi things - for an average Russian would be enough to check who every Main st in every Ukrainian city is named after to come to the conclusion that yeah, they are all nazi over there which of course isn't true, but then unfortunately heroization of certain questionable individuals plays very well into Putin's hands and makes an ordinary half educated Russian believe what TV shows them.

    I personally was not expecting a full scale invasion and nobody I know inside Ukraine did, even people that work in SBU hadn't a clue seeing how unprepared Ukraine still was in Feb 2022. Of course what happened nearly 2 years ago changed many people's opinions on many things incl myself.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    He was in the Jagdkommando, let's just say it's very unlikely he has no combat experience



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    And yet they have been regularly involved in overseas conflicts



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,015 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Doing what? They have been declared neutral since the 50s, they're not a part of NATO. To my knowledge, they didn't participate in Iraq or Afghanistan in any combat capacity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭zv2


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    So you think that you might be wrong yet again and your world view might me a bit skewed and not representative of the majority of the Ukrainians population who after all did vote for Zelensky in a free and fair election (unlike Putin’s 25 year reign, and coming “elections” whose outcome is already set in stone)?

    After all you self admitted to be a 40+ year old coming from USSR and being here for two decades (there a whole generation born after you left fighting for your old country) presumably consuming Russian language propaganda (you have repeated in your past posts) which seems peculiarly aimed at your precise female Russian speaking demographic

    Many people were surprised that Putin invaded yet he did, so that raises a question for you

    If it wasn’t for Zelensky and his charisma and leadership and instead Ukraine had yet another corrupt oligarch puppet do you think it would have got any help from rest of world or do you think it would have ended up a repressive larger version of Belarus?

    One doesn’t have to like Zelensky to still admit his contribution to the survival of Ukraine as a country and prevention of genocide of millions has been key.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    The regular army not, but like I said, he was Jagdkommando, that's the Austrian SAS equivalent, they don't tend to be there to count crates



  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭glen123


    Well, helpful suggestion or not, ordinary people want to see Ukrainian MPs suffer like they and their kids do and not just make money from this war, travelling abroad on holidays like there is no war, etc. This is exactly why there are no more volunteers to fight - people are sick of all the corruption and the scale of it. They don't see why they should go and loose their lives while someone else is sitting in the mobilization center making $100K in bribes and maximum that they'd get in punishment is get sacked and...a new job a month later :)

    Zelensky needs to get his house in order. The only way to do it is to send a clear signal to those that see this war as an opportunity to make as much money as possible, including his own circle. This has not happened yet and as a result he is steadily loosing the support of ordinary people, people that he wants to go and fight. Western support alone won't cut it, I am afraid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,015 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Doesn't mean they have done anything of note. Most non English speaking nato sof units did **** all in the gwot, and Austria did even less



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Not sure I get you Gatling?

    I mean Austria is generally not involved in overseas conflicts but the Jagdkommando tends to end up in an awful lot of conflict zones all the same. There are always interests to be protected



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    If that's what you want to think, fine. With ostensibly neutral countries and countries without such a celebration of militarism I find you generally have to read between the lines a bit when it comes to their special forces



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Bit of a pointless discussion anyway. Let's say the good colonel shot someone at some point of his career - will that change what you think of his video briefings?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Looks like a group of 200 Ukrainian soldiers was released by the Russians today,some from the Azovstal siege still another 500+ being held from the siege



  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭glen123


    I never said Zelenky wasn't voted in fairly. He did everything correctly to get the vote - even finally learnt Ukrainian language right before the elections to get the votes from the West of the country, something he hadn't bothered to do all his life. Very quickly however his rating dropped through the ground way before the war.

    Also, not sure if he was corrupt or a puppet or just oligarch or maybe all three in one, but Poroshenko kept things stable between 2014 and 2019, even got Ukraine visa free travel in the EU. Looks like being a businessman and an experienced politician he was able to balance between the neighbour and the EU. Had Ukranians voted for him again, it's quite possible there would have been no invasion. It's also thanks to him Ukrainian army took some sort of a shape. I wouldn't be suprised that it was Zelenky's inaptitude as a politician that was a trigger point of this disaster of a situation, with Putin then overestimating the state of his army which is also corrupt to the core...and we are now where we are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭glen123


    Yes, this was one of the reasons his popularity quickly faded after the elections because one of his main election promises was European wages for the teachers, yet the minute he was elected things became even worse for many people financially. Now how much went towards the army ...who knows. Also, it would have depended on who you discussed this with. Kyiv is Kyiv - different wages, opportunities, etc. If you had asked the same question a pensioner on $100 a month, you would have got a different answer, I am sure considering this pensioner is somehow supposed to live, eat and buy meds and prey they don't end up in a hospital because free medical care in Ukraine is non-existent.

    I am afraid this war is to go on for longer than just a few more years. Zelenky's fate is likely to be the same of Churchill's but if this war ends in territory being given away, he'd have to leave the country, most likely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    Poroshenko is your better “alternative” to Zelensky

    right it’s not even worth engaging with this anymore



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I was just saying that they have and regularly serve outside of Austria,but as people may know, most special forces unit operations tend to be classified.

    But that doesn't take away from this chaps military career and experience



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    To be fair to Poroshenko he was prepared to defend his nation alongside many others, when Kyiv was under attack from Russia, I know there are corruption charges against him, however he was still willing to fight & apparently has funded military equipment purchases from his own money. I don't think he would have left Kyiv just as Zelensky didn't either.

    https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-former-leader-petro-poroshenko-calls-for-military-aircraft-to-give-us-the-opportunity-to-protect-you-in-the-west-12559865

    I believe most governments & political leaders are corrupt, however, at least some of Ukraines politicians are patriots. In shark contrast to some western European political leaders that hide in fridges & take bungs from Russian oligarchs.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,015 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The issue is he presents himself in uniform, presumably to add weight to his opinions. He's been shown to be wrong consistently in his predictions, yet folks want to point to him as some expert due to his employment. Pointing out his lack of viable experience is valid in that context.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    He's playing for the camera nothing more ,he hasn't taken up arms to defend Ukraine no more than the Klitschko brothers have,they are sitting in there comfortable houses doing press tours with selected media then going back to the way they lived pre invasion,

    It's playing up for the audiences waiting for their turn to grab some power whenever elections are restored



This discussion has been closed.
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