Russia - threadbanned users in OP

And how do you force them to fight? Do you do what the Russians do, send them to the front with a gun/ammo and shoot them if they refuse to fight?

A little cop on goes a long way

No I do not agree.

I do not agree that whatever laws or drafts apply to Ukrainian citizens in Ukraine also apply to Ukrainian citizens outside of Ukraine. To think so is ridiculous.

I do not agree that it's Ireland's responsibility to enforce the rules of a completely different country to it's citizens who happen to live here. To think so is ridiculous.

Furthermore, Ukrainian citizens who disagree with their country's draft laws have a right to seek refugee status and this has already been demonstrated by Syrian nationals fleeing their civil war.

Finally, I have spelled this out multiple times to you, and it's clear that your intent is not some high-minded ideal to secure the future of Ukraine. You have quite bigoted views towards immigration and refugees, and this argument is just a smokescreen to promote these views.

You can spell out all you want. Let's get to the next question:

Do you want Ukraine to prevail in the war? Yes or no, straight answer.

Yes.

But Furze, let's not cloud the issue. You're more concerned about the number of foreigners in the country and you'll support any measure that reduces this number.

That's why you're so eager to send someone elses sons and husbands off to war.

Reminds me of Alfrid Lickspittle in the Hobbit screaming "to the death" and then running away from the enemy.

This is a thread about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If you want to discuss immigration and refugees, there are two other very active threads in which you participate I believe.

Please stop trying to conflate what I'm saying here with your views on 'foreigners' as you put it. I have absolutely no interest in debating 'foreigners' with you on this thread. It's the wrong place. We are discussing Ukraine and Russia and the needs of Ukraine both in manpower and equipment and finances.

Now, given that you wish Ukraine to prevail in this war that Russia has imposed on them, how do you propose that they do this without sufficient able bodied manpower? Citizens that are needed to sustain the war effort both on the front lines but also importantly working in supplies and logistics. Even just keeping the lights on and roads open.

How do they do this without sufficient able bodied manpower?

I know there are other threads, and that's how I know your ulterior motive.

I'm not going to debate an impossibility.

If you can show that any country could legally deport legitimate refugees to their country of origin, and if you can show that Ukraine is so badly in need of manpower they need to extradite their citizens then I'll debate it.

Right now it's just a fairytale in your head that plays well with your views on refugees and immigrants.

So clearly you think it's OK to flee Ukraine (or Russia) to avoid enlisting. I asked you how you propose they prevail in this war without sufficient able bodied manpower. And you wash your hands of it.

If that's the attitude, then maybe the 'west' would be best to acknowledge this and withdraw all useful support from Ukraine. Why help a country whose own citizens are not prepared to stand up and defend it???

Is that the answer you really want??

I do think it's OK to flee a war you want no part in. So does the rest of the world, which is why we have laws protecting refugees. Does it fill you with joy to see so many patriotic Russians enlist?

When you can demonstrate there is insufficient manpower in Ukraine then I'll debate it.

When you come out with nonsense like this " Why help a country whose own citizens are not prepared to stand up and defend it???" given we've seen 100,000 Ukranian casualties, and AFU prevail against all the odds, then I wonder what planet you're living on.

With respect, do you not see the fundamental incompatibility in your response?? You say it's OK to flee war and not defend your country on one hand and then praise the efforts of those who did in the next breath. Hypocrisy.

As for @pixelburp assertion above, I'll have you know than my grandparents who went to the trenches of WW1 were not conscripted. There was no conscription in Ireland during WW1 - no, they answered the call and enlisted. They were otherwise peaceful men prepared to defend against the march of the German, Austrian Hungarian & Turkish empires. Just as Ukrainians are now needed and are indeed morally obliged to defend against the expanding Russian empire.

As for me, I regard our generation as very lucky not to have been sucked into a major European conflict. But you can be damn sure, that if we were that I would have done my duty as a citizen to help defend Ireland. And I would expect nothing less of anyone else.

Moving away from the debate about deporting refugees to a country that still has millions of able bodied people capable of taking up arms against putin's aggression the Dutch have put a number on their initial delivery of F-16s to Ukraine:

Well, it's only Cork. I mean, they all stayed in bed in 1916 so why should they expect the rest of us to defend it. Its an awful shitehole, in fairness.

Well , it depends on who is attacking it. If it was any country /group bar Russia I would help in defending Cork to the last as there is always hope of victory. BUT, BUT if it was Russia, I would leave it have Russia on the condition that it would never try to attack another county !

You don't live in reality

Humans come in in all shapes sizes and mentally

We have hired a few Ukrainians and out of the 6 i would think 1 could be of use to the Ukrainian military

The other 5 are like little mice

There is no way they could handle battlefield conditions, its probably why there family's arranged for them or themselves to leave Ukraine

Not everyone is cut out for war, being a keyboard warrior doesn't make you tough