Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521485#Comment_121521485

If they're legally here, how do you 'send' them back home for the sole purpose of aiding the war effort if they don't want to go? What use to a war effort are people who don't want to be there?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521539#Comment_121521539

This topic been covered here before.

There is no mechanism for returning refugees to their home country so they can be drafted into a war, and there is no political will to do it either.

Just the fever dreams of Irish anti-immigration supporters.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521390#Comment_121521390

Fiat 124s only without the rust

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521390#Comment_121521390

That thing makes the Multipla look classy & elegant by comparison. Did the designers start drinking paint thinner or what's going on there? 😨😨

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521418#Comment_121521418

They brought in conscription with an exemption if you were in education. Immediately the numbers in education shot up incl older men. If you think the excess numbers are not mostly draft-dodgers then you're naive and I have a bridge to sell you.

By the way Ukraine agrees with me, they have proposed a law to limit the exemption to under 30. The language of the law literally says that a significant number people exploited the loophole.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521790#Comment_121521790

They are also talking about increasing the higher age of conscription to 40 +

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521790#Comment_121521790

Should be borne in mind that there is no 'Ukraine' any more than there is an 'Ireland'. They're artificial constructs unique to humankind. What is really meant is the people of an area who associate themselves with that artificial construct. In progressive countries this is given voice to by way of elections and referenda etc. In totalitarian countries it's by force, where the concept of that country no longer reflects the will of that people, but the tyranny, greed and will of one or a small group of people. So its really for the Ukrainian people to decide how they wish to progress the resistance to Putin's military aggression. Zelensky will no doubt be mindful of turning the citizens of Ukraine against him by seeking to force his vision of a defence of the country on them.

If enough Ukrainians want to resist Putin by putting their shoulder to the war effort, they will. If they do, they will eventually defeat Putin. But nobody outside of the professional army should be forced to fight any war and it should always be within the grasp of a nation to sue for peace.

If the comfortable citizens of the West want to compel others to fight, maybe they should a) put themselves forward or b) lobby their own governments to take direct action.

roosterman71

Fair **** to all those who went to education. Nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong either with not wanting to go into the military to fight if that's what you decide. The country needs all sorts and not everyone needs to be in the army.

PopePalpatine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521135#Comment_121521135

Xinnie obviously doesn't trust them with Li-ion ones.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521790#Comment_121521790

No point calling me naive when you're simply guessing yourself. Really, are you privy to the motivations of every single Ukrainian immigrant here? Would you be happy to call a Ukrainian a draft dodger to his or her face?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521485#Comment_121521485

It's a perfectly logical point that you make. Ukraine needs people of service age - if they are here they should return/ be returned to do their bit for their country. God knows, we're all doing our bit to support them and taking the financial hit. But as soon as this revolutionary idea is mentioned, some posters jump up very, very quickly to pooh pooh it.

pixelburp

Oh goodie we're back to the tedious conversation of deporting Ukrainians, and how dare they be here and not fighting back home. That wasn't an obnoxious segue the last N times, or a façade for the usual anti migrant biased.

odyssey06

Not sure how much to credit this but trending on google.

Russian troops struck down by "mouse fever"

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/25702

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521485#Comment_121521485

Over qtr of the population is now in Western Europe, millions more in Russia occupied Ukraine.

Add in that most of the ones in western Europe are women and children and it's going to be an existential problem for Ukraine, especially if it also has family reunification.

It'll be an empty space and an easier task for the red army, though they'll still make it difficult on themselves.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523685#Comment_121523685

And how you propose we deport 100,000 + Ukrainians to an active warzone .

Bear in mind we have only managed 1500+ Deportations over the last 30 years despite tens of thousands of failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants arriving here we can't even deport the 20% of foreign prison population here either

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523709#Comment_121523709

Da comrade.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523805#Comment_121523805

Lol, what? Oh please tell me that's sarcasm, I'm just tired, and you didn't just try to tankie me.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524093#Comment_121524093

I'll admit it was slightly tongue in cheek.

More of a personnel carrier than a tankie, though your views would be similar enough to how Russia needs people to think, I know you are not pro Kremlin.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524183#Comment_121524183

The question of whether Ireland should be just sending back Ukrainians out of some "tough love" strategy is a nonsense, and often nothing more than a rebadge of the general anti-migrant feeling beloved of some of late. Leaving aside the legality of doing so, and certainly not getting into another segue about the morality of it all (after some trying to imply we'd have a moral obligation to take up arms, JFC), it is a little ... amusing how the idea of forcibly sending Ukrainians back into a war has distinct ... Soviet vibe about it.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524376#Comment_121524376

I suppose they think it could never happen to them, so they can afford to divorce themselves from empathy a bit and take a hard line. If it were them in that position, they'd take all the help and mercy they could get and complain quite bitterly if they felt a danger of being forced out of their temporary home.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523685#Comment_121523685

What's this, the fourth time you've brought this up?

Come on Furze, you've already laid out your intentions on another thread. Your kids can't buy a house and you think deporting some immigrants will lower property prices.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521602#Comment_121521602

Maybe there should be a mechanism. Laws can be changed. Do you want the Russian Nazis to win? There's millions of Ukrainians under Russian control who can't help the war effort.

Why couldn't the millions of Ukrainians in Europe help? If their country asks for some back to help maintain their existence we should oblige.

We're not taking woman and children being fed to the frontlines here. We're talking teenagers who become young men returning and joining the war effort. Whether that's logistics, industry work or training to be a soldier it's vital. Woman can also contribute to the war effort massively behind the front line and free up men to the front.

And I know there's no political will because Europe is hell bent on increasing the unions population for economic reasons.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121523796#Comment_121523796

I always thought we were giving these people temporary refugee until they could return. Obviously in reality things are different.

And nobody is calling for 100k deportations but if Ukraine comes calling for man power and want people back to help the effort. Anyone they request should be returned out of respect for Ukraine. Given most of the 100k are woman and children you could be talking a small number of say 5k from Ireland and obviously much more from countries like Germany and Poland. But these 1 percenters make a difference when you're up against Russia trying to wipe your nation out.

The way I look at it, if Ukraine doesn't want anyone back fair enough they would obviously feel it's not necessary. But it's looking like they will want people back so why would you deny them?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524925#Comment_121524925

They can ask for people to return but they can't force people to return or demand people be deported, I don't think there's any official agreements in place either about Deportations with Ukraine, but another thing is the asylum process they currently have temporary protection but by law every Ukrainian here has a right to seek asylum which would end any motion of returning to Ukraine,

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524902#Comment_121524902

We're not taking woman and children being fed to the frontlines here. We're talking teenagers who become young men returning and joining the war effort.

Oh well that's ok then. How brave of you to volunteer young men for a war in another country; the flippancy with which you would throw people back into a war zone as some acid test of loyalty is, as I said, such a soviet and russian attitude. Though your conspiratorial last sentence that the EU are darkly bumping our population outs your opinion as emotive, at best.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525085#Comment_121525085

I never realised it was our moral duty to return refugees to their home country so they could be used in the same war they're fleeing from. I would have thought that would breach some law or convention... 🙄

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525085#Comment_121525085

It's not a conspiracy. The EU openly claims they need to increase the population for economic reasons and are not happy with the current birth rate. It's how capitalism works. Endless population growth needed for endless economic growth. A flawed model imo.

Back on topic, it's not me volunteering them but Ukraine are now suggesting it will call for some people back. You support stealing a countries population from a country fighting for it's survival? You do realise many Ukrainians in Ukraine have been mobilised who want nothing to do with war? It's how things work when you fight for your very existence against a formidable foe.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525286#Comment_121525286

You said

Why couldn't the millions of Ukrainians in Europe help? If their country asks for some back to help maintain their existence we should oblige.

There's a difference between Ukraine making a plea for volunteers to bolster ranks, and this above which reads like Ireland should "oblige" in shipping refugees and asylum seekers back to a war zone if asked, regardless of people's desires. Nor are we "stealing a countries population", which is a fairly dehumanising way to describe the refugee scenario - and more than a little grotesque considering the actual kidnaping of children being committed by Russia.

It's flippant, reductive and ignores the human part of the equation. I feel sorry for anyone fighting on the frontlines who never wanted to. And I feel sorry for people who fled here 'cos they don't want to fight. Shockingly, people don't want to die and/or separate their families. This is not an outrageous position to take.

But I am not getting into another round of arguing why shipping back able-bodied Ukrainian men is somehow a perfectly normal, rational choice 'cos it's obscene, dehumanising and has the distinct whiff of comfortable hubris from someone with nothing to lose - but plenty to "gain" with such an outsized anti-migrant position.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525286#Comment_121525286

Europe is "stealing" the population of Ukraine?

How? by offering them safe refuge during a war?

I don't think any country is restricting the movement of refugees back to their home country if they want to go.

Can you at least be transparent with the intent behind your posts. You don't agree with immigration policy. You would prefer if there were fewer immigrants. You're trying to cover this up with some nonsense argument that by accepting refugees we're "stealing a countries population" and letting the "Russian Nazi's win".

Poor effort.

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-december-21-2023