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The Wolfe Tones

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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    O'Duffy?? Didn't he speak out against anti-semiticism?

    "O'Duffy and some of his men also made an appearance at the 1934 International Fascist conference in Montreux where he argued against antisemitism, telling the conference that they had "no Jewish problem in Ireland" and that he "could not subscribe to the principle of the persecution of any race".

    That was well before the Holocaust had begun, and O'Duffy was well gone from political life by the time the Nazis got going.

    Russell and his cohorts were the opposite, happy to welcome the Nazis ten years later, when the holocaust was well known, understood and established.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭growleaves


    No he wasn't [gone from political life].

    O'Duffy started the National Corporate Party after leaving FG.

    Then during the war he became the leader of the People’s National Party [who were pro-Nazi].

    In 1943, O'Duffy approached the German Legation in Dublin with an offer to organise an Irish Volunteer Legion for use on the Eastern Front. He explained his offer to the German ambassador as wanting to "save Europe from Bolshevism". The Nazis declined O'Duffy's help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85,613 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1




  • Registered Users Posts: 29,001 ✭✭✭✭end of the road




    shame on them.

    hopefully the venue will find sufficient staff to work the gig or the wolftones can get another belfast venue.

    they are retiring i believe so the people of belfast should be able to get to see them one last time.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    Wonder has there being any pressure put on any of the staff from people of a Loyalist persuasion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Wouldn't blame them, who would want to be at a show that sings songs of hate towards your community?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Bet you wouldn't be too keen on working at a venue with a band pumping out Loyalist songs. Not everyone likes the things you like shocker.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,058 ✭✭✭Odhinn




  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Quite a number of the Wolfe Tones songs are offensive. Celtic Symphony is the obvious one.

    To be fair, there are a handful of good ones like the Streets of New York.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,058 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Celtic symphony with the lines "Oo ah hup the RA "is hardly a hate song. I want examples from you of Wolfe Tones songs that are "songs of hate towards your community". Specifically hate towards protestants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am not of the protestant community, I am atheist.

    If you think "Ooh ah, up the Ra" is not a sectarian hate chant, there is no point continuing this conversation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,058 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    It most certainly is not. I see you're building an excuse to not answer the original question. People can make up their minds on that tactic fairly easily.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Shower of talentless auld codgers. Should have been decommissioned back in the 90’s. That auld three chords, the tash, the bucket shaking stuff has no place in our country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,001 ✭✭✭✭end of the road




    none of their songs are offensive.

    they are songs that celebrate irishness, our culture and our country.

    they are songs of cultural enrichment and they will be sung for centuries to come.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Look , it's master pop song writing, every spanner in the country fell for it, you were conned and the wolfies will retire rich



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,058 ✭✭✭Odhinn




  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Lawlesz


    "they are songs that celebrate Irishness, our culture, and our country"

    This is the exact line Brian Warfield comes out with when he gets dragged onto Joe Duffy or something else every year.

    I think people need to take them for what they are. Some of their songs are catchy, I might throw on big strong man or streets of New York myself the odd time, but the reality is they have been phoning it in and getting away with it for years. But that is a different conversation.

    For them (or anyone) to say that the Celtic Symphony is not sectarian, is downright disingenuous. Warfields defence is that the song only mentions what the protagonist sees on the walls in Glasgow - which is a defence laughable in its simplicity. When questioned about glorifying terrorism they say they sing of the IRA of the War of Independence (which usually gets a big cheer from the crowd) neglecting to mention that one of their biggest hits, the helicopter song, is about the Provos. It is cringe worthy and embarrassing, run with the hare and hunt with the hound stuff.

    Anybody who speaks out against this kind of phony republican claptrap gets labelled a west Brit. The reality is that there is a sizeable minority on the island whos feelings and culture will need to be taken into account if the island is ever to be united again. And this juvenile rhetoric is one of the reasons that can never happen peacefully. Think how any Irish Republican would feel listening to songs glorifying the UVF

    Post edited by Lawlesz on


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,001 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    there is nothing sectarian about any of their songs.

    the facts are, only for the IRA either or both of the following would be the case.

    1. northern ireland would still be a sectarian apartheid state.
    2. we would still be under british rule and would be a basket case.
    3. all cultures of the island are taken into account and the culture of unionists is not really british anyway so it will get no special treatment or no more consideration then any other as part of a UI.
    4. ireland will be united again, as it always should have been, and only hasn't been due to britain wanting to have some sort of a military presence on the island and to use the unionist vote for some extra votes to then drop them again, all the while giving them, or anyone else on that part of the island, nothing.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Well said. Of course some of the Wolf Tones songs are sectarian, given they are glorifying the IRA and because of what the IRA did. To me, songs glorifying the IRA are borderline incitement to hatred. I would say the same if a band got up on a stage and got a crowd chanting " Uh Ah up the UVF " or other such rubbish.


    As you correctly point out "The reality is that there is a sizeable minority on the island whose feelings and culture will need to be taken into account if the island is ever to be united again. And this juvenile rhetoric is one of the reasons that can never happen peacefully.". I would say the Wolf Tones are causing division and driving a United Ireland further away - why would many northerners want to join a United Ireland where their ladies football team for example would sing a sectarian song? An own goal by Republicans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Agreed. Anyone serious about a peaceful United Ireland shoudn't be promoting the Provo-related songs of the Wolfe Tones (I know most of their songs aren't Provo-related) or the equivalent Loyalist songs.

    That doesn't mean ban them, is just means using common-sense if you want to have a peaceful co-existence in a united Ireland.

    Anyone who simply thinks "majority rules, like it or leave", is repeating mistakes of the past towards minorities.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    Still waiting for the examples of 'quite a number of songs' that are offensive?

    A half sentence, taken out of context, from one song hardly equates to 'quite a number of songs'. If you want to understand the context of the song, begin by finding out why it was written when it was.

    You would be doing very well to name a band or artist with a collection of music as extensive as the Wolf Tones (19 Studio Albums) that don't have at least one phrase that would offend someone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Lawlesz


    Some of your points may be valid. But you are arguing a different point than the one I was making. I never made comment on the existence of the IRA or what NI would be without them.

    The point is, as some other poster said, that pushing the Wolfe Tones and their ilk onto people not of that persuasion is divisive.

    And before you trot out the Warfield line "you're ashamed of your history". No, I'm not. But I am mindful that parts of our history are hurtful to others.

    In much the same as I hate everything the UVF stand for, I would be rightly annoyed if they were being pushed front and centre.

    I am not arguing about your point of view that the Provos were a good thing. But I can't understand your refusal to acknowledge that other people are entitled to feel differently and may be upset by people glorifying them.

    "it will get no special treatment or no more consideration then any other as part of a UI"

    You really think that mindset will result in a peaceful reunification?



  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭BaywatchHQ


    Unionists erect purple UVF flags all the time in mixed towns. If you mentioned this to them they would say they are for the UVF in the 1910s. If they are allowed to commemorate the UVF why are people not allowed to commemorate the IRA who helped bring freedom to 26 counties? I personally feel no shame in glorifying IRA soldiers from the early 1920's, especially the anti treaty ones. To me that is no different in people glorifying WW1/WW2 soldiers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭BaywatchHQ


    I see that some unionist staff refuse to work at the Belfast concert. These are probably the same people who attend orange parades, I bet they wouldn't be so offended by songs about British terror groups. People like this on both sides are not really against terrorism, they are only against terrorism from the other side. People who complain about the IRA erect UVF flags in towns. I don't attend Wolfe Tones concerts nor have I ever erected flags so I am not a hypocrite.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    They can do what they like up there, but down here, I don't want sectarian songs from either side, and that means an end to many of the Wolfe Tones songs.

    Whatever claims are made about their 40 albums, just look at their recent setlists and the sectarianism is plainly evident.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,347 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Why should anyone be forced to listen to sectarian songs directed against their community?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,058 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    You've a link to these set lists?

    "Why should anyone be forced to listen to sectarian songs directed against their community?"


    What sectarian songs are you referring to?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,918 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Great mindreading, maybe you should be a warm up act for Keith Barry.



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