The Wolfe Tones

JP Liz V1

Apologies if a thread already but why is it so wrong to enjoy their shows and music, EP audience enjoyed them

They sing about Ireland, the good and bad

Their songs are used as footie anthems

Plenty music artists sing about real and controversial issues

buried

The FG infested Irish establishment never got over the fact that we didn't want to commemorate the murderous black and tans back in their commemorative 2020 event like they foolishly expected us to.

That's what the problem is.

retalivity

The Joe Duffy/RTE /Indo/Newstalk heads having conniptions this morning was hilarious.

Leg End Reject

Anyone offended by The Wolfe Tones needs to take a serious look at their life and their sensibilities.

lmk123

It’s just fools that want to be offended by everything, if people listened to lyrics from modern songs / music I think they’d find them much worse, however, those songs are probably considered empowering or some other shite

hynesie08

Joe Duffy was right though, Celtic symphony is a shite song.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069695#Comment_121069695

It's not great, but it's got a very catchy chorus.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069710#Comment_121069710

It's lazy lazy songwriting with a chant in the middle, if it wasn't for the chant it would never be played live.

NIMAN

I never say music is Sh1te.

It's a very subjective thing, like art etc.

Music I dislike, others will like, but it's not sh1te just because I don't like it.

I'm not mad on Daniel O'Donnell, Westlife or Ed Sheeran. But they all have huge fan bases, so a lot of people like them.

I'm not a Wolfe Tones fan, but that record EP crowd standing inside and outside that tent weren't there cos they dislike them. They must have some appeal.

Atlantic Dawn

They should modernise and write some new songs about the banks and how they corrupted the country 😁

buried

The likes of Newstalk/RTE/FG/Irish independent should just write their own versions of traditional songs if they don't like The Wolfe Tones versions

"Come out ye Black and tans and tie my poor Grandmother by her hair to the back of your splendid armoured truck and go full speed down the road until she becomes part of the asphalt"

Then the 8 of them can go to electric picnic and bounce to that

timmyntc

"Something something sinn Fein/IRA, Jean mcconville, my grandfather didnt fight in the RIC for the modern oirish people to be dancing on his grave listening to Fenian music, 'good' Republicans, the British werent that bad the Catholics brought it on themselves" etc etc

I think that about covers all the hand wringing in response to people liking the Wolfe tones

Polar101

Was anyone actually offended by this, or was it just "I bet some people will be offended by this"? I'm not going to listen to Joe Duffy just to find out.

Faugheen

I know absolutely nobody who was upset by this. The likes of the Indo and Newstalk remembered the controversy of the women’s team singing ‘oo ah up the ‘ra’ after they qualified for the World Cup and just wanted to go in on Celtic Symphony again to piss people off.

Thats what a lot of the Irish media is. It’s just creating hit points to whip people up into a frenzy when realistically most people don’t actually give a sh*t.

They're like internet trolls. They only reason they do it is because people react to it. If people ignored it everytime it was brought up then I would guarantee you they wouldn’t touch it again, because all they want is engagement, clicks and to generate outrage either for or against them.

Its an absolutely sh*te song anyway.

standardg60

I'm gobsmacked that security services aren't on high alert given the amount of people who attended and chanted the slogan.

ErnestBorgnine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069680#Comment_121069680

Only offended by how shite they are

SEPT 23 1989

No fan of Sinn Fein and all things republican but when they get into power the Irish establishment and their mouthpieces will go all out attack

the attack on them will make the treatment of Trump in the media seem fair and balanced

it will be very entertaining

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070178#Comment_121070178

More entertaining than Sinn Fein realizing it’s easier to criticize than govern. But I suppose that will be because of post colonial something something.

HalloweenJack

As long as part of this island is part of the UK, I can't see how their music will become less popular.

It's easier for us in the Republic to move on but there are plenty of Irish citizens who are still affected on a daily basis by the role of the British government in this country's history.

Everlong1

I'm no snowflake. I grew up in the late 70's and early '80's when the Provos and their "campaign" were dragging my country's name in the gutter on a weekly basis. I have no time for anyone trying to glorify an organisation responsible, on a regular basis, for blowing up pregnant women, children, old age pensioners and other innocents out shopping on a Saturday afternoon. I wonder how many of the hipster kids chanting Up the Ra at EP had even the faintest idea what they were singing about ?

There are still a small hardcore of thugs in this country who want to go back to the "good old days" of "legitimate targets" as evidenced by the recent attacks on Catholic PSNI members. I'm sure they must be delighted at the idea that there's a new generation of kids who can be conned into thinking that the Provos were all romantic idealistic freedom fighters.

Str8outtaWuhan

We most be the only country in the world guilted for singing songs about 800 years of oppression and exile.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070599#Comment_121070599

"I'm no snowflake"

<Proceeds to get offended by a song>

Thelonious Monk

Some people don't think we should be chanting things that glorify the provisional IRA, most people don't give a sh*t. Young men get a kick out of that kind of thing and I'd imagine that's what the crowd was mostly made up of. You couldn't pay me personally to sit through one of their concerts but each to their own.

Ashbourne hoop

They've a lot better songs than Celtic Symphony.....

GreeBo

While it might mean nothing to many/most people, the lads waving the tricolour to protest against "dirty, black immigrants" coming into BallyBrack delighted in playing The Wolfe Tones at full volume in support of their cause over the last few weeks.

Are the other terrorist organizations that we like to still sings about?

If you can shout "ooh ah, up the Ra!" but then argue that you dont meant anything by it, what else can you publicly proclaim but then disassociate yourself from its meaning? Maybe a Nazi salute or a white hooded robe?

Danzy

They sing songs about the nation and the national army, even members of the State Army sing their songs.

All a nothing burger .

People enjoying themselves and some people getting angry

whisky_galore

The young ones know how much they annoy the so-called establishment so they'll pile into a Tones set in EP like naughty teens smoking around the bike shed. It's like when punks and bikers wore Swastikas to be super edgy. It's trash drinking music, pub music, the content isn't very technically very good and the message is not too subtle but each to their own.

It's funny when people wail about "banning" their "tradition", songs and stories, but they'll blast a loyalist flute band, a bonfire or a Twelfth parade as sectarian and something that should be banned when a WT concert is pretty much the same thing from the other side of the divide.

Quitelife

The Wolfetones sing of " A Nation once Again " and their dead right.

The leaders of 1916 are turning in their graves we still dont have a United Ireland 100 years & Coounting after they died, Fine Gael would go back under British rule if they had their way, We abandoned the 6 counties of Armagh, Tyrone, Derry etc but the Wolfetones didnt !!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312296/the-wolfe-tones

Nothing wrong at all with liking Wolfe Tone ballads if that's your thing. We have personal choice.

Personally as someone with an interest in and who plays Irish trad music, I think they represent the lowest common denominator of Irish music - gutter stuff. But YMMV so carry on :)

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069680#Comment_121069680

That's grand I presume you've no problem with Loyalists singing about Billy Wright or Lenny Murphy or writing "KAT" and putting effigies of a hanged Michelle O'Neill on bonfires so. Presumably it's all just a bit of banter.

The truth is, doing that and chanting "Up The Ra" are two sides of the same coin.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070746#Comment_121070746

There's a bizarre double think with people who are defending chanting "Up The Ra". I see people claiming "oh it's just a bit of banter, sure none of the people chanting it even remember the Troubles or know much about it".

Yet then the same people turn around and bitch when people are advised to educate themselves about the Troubles and what a grotesque disaster for this island it was. The narrative then becomes "oh, but these people actually DO know their history" (they don't, they know a Disney version lf history that is pushed by Sinn Fein, ie., fake history).

Which is it? Because it can't be both.

Avon8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070524#Comment_121070524

Their popularity has very little to do with that though. The vast majority of the EP crowd was 20 somethings high on drink and/or drugs, mad for a communal singalong to tunes they've heard in every Irish bar abroad since they were a toddler, or chanted at football matches, or the local at 1am on a Saturday. They couldn't care less about the armed struggle

It's the same as the Irish womens team singing "ohh ahh up the ra" when celebrating. At no point is anyone thinking "I support the actions of the IRA". Its generally people on some sort of buzz messing with their friends, aided by nostalgia and catchy lyrics

Boggles

So ban young people singing songs?

I'm all for that, can we start with Ed Sheeran and 4,000 other clones of him that are never off the radio?

Nah I'm joking, I don't listen to the radio, it's never been easier in the history of music to listen to your own preferences.

If you don't like it turn it off.

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070766#Comment_121070766

Streets of New York is arguably one of the greatest songs ever produced in Ireland.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070599#Comment_121070599

I would think a lot of it was driven by king idiot Joe Duffy ambushing a member of the band, spuing personal vitriol all over him, and the two click bait edgelords on Newstalk.

Had they said nothing in the name of getting listeners and clicks on their tweets etc, the crowd wouldn't have been as big.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071153#Comment_121071153

Pity it is sung by the same old sectarian bigots who - lets call a spade a spade - glorify the organisation who planted 16,000 bombs, many of which sliced in to women, children etc on streets closer to home. Singing uh ah UP the RA is no different that singing Up ah up Isis or Uh Ah up the 9/11 twin towers suicide bombers.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071119#Comment_121071119

Yes, that's about the sum of it. Anyone trying to read some big political statement into it is overanalysing things. I'd probably be singing along to the songs myself if I was there and I'm no IRA supporter.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121069852#Comment_121069852

Well, I wouldn't be offended by it, but that's hardly the question as I'm fine with the Irish Republic.

But I'm less comfortable with things like the Billy Boys song lyrics:

Hullo, Hullo

We are the Billy Boys

Hullo, Hullo

You'll know us by our noise

We're up to our knees in fenian blood

Surrender or you'll die

For we are

The Brigton Derry Boys.

I'm not really thrilled with the idea of them being up to their knees in fenian blood and the threat of death. So the question is pretty clear about who might be offended by songs and the answer is not the people in the crowd singing along.

Should these songs be banned? I don't think so. But you need to acknowledge the people you're likely to offend by singing it and if you're happy to offend them, then go ahead.

Likewise, you'll need to acknowledge that the Orange Lads can sing their songs to you and you need to be equally fine with their threat of death to you. If we get to that point. Then there's no problem anymore.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070613#Comment_121070613

Way to spectacularly miss the point.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071034#Comment_121071034

What a silly thing to say. They are a skilled ensemble, good songwriters with a good singer. Lets see your stuff.

The lowest common denominator is un-coordinated ceilí bands jamming away mindlessly imo.

prunudo

Its a classic example of what happens when oldies telling young people (I know it was mixed ages) not to do something which they perceive to be fun. The establishment tut tut in disgust, people who never would have had the Wolfe Tones on the radar, take note.

There is something bigger afoot here in this country though, something is stirring and the next election will cause consternation amongst old guard. The lack of housing and an uncertain future for many young people is increasingly driving a wedge between the younger generations and what they see as older generations who have everything.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071218#Comment_121071218

This is a new one to add to the bingo card - ooh ahh up the 9/11 twin towers suicide bombers

Honestly the hand wringing and Pearl clutching in response to rebel songs is hilarious.

Wolfe Tones live rent free in many peoples' heads

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071071#Comment_121071071

They're pub songs, like mass market movies they are pieces of entertainment. Not documentaries, they're not meant to be complicated or make you think. They are historical in a way, but present a biased, black hat vs white hat, one-sided part of that history.

Real history is complicated, inconvenient and messy.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071133#Comment_121071133

You can't ban songs and nobody is proposing that. You can't ban people from singing "Up the Ra" no more than you can ban Loyalists from singing about Billy Wright or Gibraltar.

Such well known West Brits as Joe Brolly and Patrick Kielty are categorical that these Up The Ra chants should stop. They should stop for the simple reason that there are many families out there that are victims of the IRA, because it isn't nice to eulogise murderers, it's the act of a buffoon and an idiot. It's Alan Partridge shouting "moooooooooo".

As Patrick Kielty says, it's far easier to sing about the Ra and not have a United Ireland and than to stop singing about the Ra so that you might have a united Ireland or a genuinely shared society at some point in the future.

El_Duderino 09

Joe Brolly's considered a West Brit? I didn't know that. Wouldn't have thought it from listening to him.

They ban songs at soccer games I don't suppose I agree with doing that but maybe it's the only way to prevent imminent violence. I wouldn't be inclined to do it but I know they do it in some instances.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070930#Comment_121070930

I probably find the phrase 'nothing burger' more annoying than the Wolfe Tones 'Republican' credentials.

But Wolfe Tones predominately target the gombeen market in the ROI, however there is a collection of gombeen's who are -

1) Easily influenced (and it normalises the republican rhetoric for the younger generation - the Irish Women's soccer team for example)

2) People who like to have the air of Republicanism and pretend they are only having a laugh - the anti immigrant brigade

--

There are certain 'types' that attend Wolfe Tone concerts. If you close your eyes and imagine which type what would you come up with?

There was once a person with a Tyrone flag, who some Wolfe Tone concert goers mistook for a NI flag and they attacked the person with the flag. That is the level of people you are dealing with.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071421#Comment_121071421

Real history is complex. In real history, the Provos bombed and shot civilians dead for three decades. They were not the Disneyfied freedom fighters some people want to portray them as. The Provos killed more Catholics than any other single group in the Troubles.

"Up the Ra" is a celebration of those who murdered civilians for three decades.

There's this bizarre delusion on the part of those defending it that words mean nothing, or should mean nothing. But they do mean something.

To say that "Up the Ra" means nothing is to embrace the Putin/Trump worldview where nothing means anything and there is no truth.

It's also carte blanche for Loyalists to sing about murdering Catholics. They can simply pass it off as "banter".

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070599#Comment_121070599

This is the problem with a lot of people.

The republican movement and republicans are the reason you have “my country”. If it wasnt for republicans we would live under british rule and have nothing like the prosperity and opportunity we have now as Irish people.

You cant be a proud Irish man without acknowledging that the people who founded this republic were nationalists and republicans and celebrating those people in song is not something anyone should be ashamed of. But there comes a point where that changed and for many the Omagh bombing was a step to far, for others it was earlier and for others it never went far enough.

Sure some of the actions during the “troubles” were unnecessary, over the top and plain barbaric but that accusation can be levelled at both sides in what was essentially a war.

So people have the right to celebrate their Irish history and Irish victory and those getting offended need to be able to understand that being a proud Irish man doesnt make you a person who supported everything the IRA did.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070524#Comment_121070524

As long as people taunt each other with sectarian slogans and songs on both sides I can't see a united Ireland. Pro united Irelanders live in a dreamland if they think Unionists will roll over or go away.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071484#Comment_121071484

The IRA in 1921 stopped fighting a war which had been going for two years because they realised the people could take no more. They weren't nihilists who went on for three decades with a completely futile murder campaign like the Provos did.

The IRA in 1921 achieved their aim, which was an independent Irish state. The Provos achieved the square root of fook all.

Tork

Older journalists should know better than to give this story any airtime. Though we live in the age of clickbait so the rules are new. Thanks to the fuss that was kicked up over the ladies football team singing along to it, the song has turned into an anti-establishment anthem. If you're a young person in Ireland today, you've got plenty of reasons to give two fingers to the establishment. So when you've got middle-aged people who own their own homes and/or are on obscene wages (Joe Duffy) finger-wagging and moralising, of course you're going to want to piss them off. I'm not convinced many of those people singing the song particularly care about the 'Ra or what happened in the north.