The Wolfe Tones

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058312296/the-wolfe-tones

It's the infantile Irish youth...self centred, naive and not only lacking knowledge about history, but don't care that they know nothing either. Embarrassing cohort compared to the youth of other countries.

And I'm not even that old by the way. But the Irish youth of today, Shinners almost to the last man and fe*kless, are really a disgrace.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085971#Comment_121085971

The impression I get of young people, especially young men (I'm 44) is that they're a more right wing generation than my one. Young people are now thrust into a culture war. Anti-immigrant and anti-refugee sentiments appear to be fairly widespread. Social media has turned a lot of them into good little individualist consumers who treat themselves as personal brands, obsessed with their looks, physiques and conspicuous consumption of corporate brands. Online notoriety is now considered an actual carer choice. The general media environment has made things more atomised, promoting loneliness and disenchantment, and thus extreme views. I think there are significant problems with porn, online gambling, right wing conspiracy theories etc. Conor McGregor is the biggest role model for young men these days and as well as being a jumped up thug he promotes extreme individualist capitalist values. Right wing demagogues such as Andrew Tate have Tucker Carlson have a credulous audience in young men. Charlatans such as Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson aim their appeal at gullible right wing young men and have a fertile market there. Music is more conservative simply because as a species we've largely run out of new genres to explore. There aren't really any music based subcultures now in the way there used to be. Rap music has moved steadily away from being an intelligent, innovative way of describing reality towards being a glorification of money and violence and f***ng hoes. The Wolfe Tones being a major act at Electric Picnic is itself a demonstration of how popular music culture has ossified. Few artists of any notable popularity are saying anything genuinely interesting or challenging about the world.

Contrary to that I think a lot of the "left-wing" sentiment among young people is very superficial and not based on any real engagement beyond wanting to be part of an online "tribe" and has massive blind spots such as the one I've mentioned among SF's young "woke" support which is they claim to be all about the rights of the victim, until we talk about victims of the Provos, at which point they suddenly become hostile.

Conversely Sinn Fein have a large element of their support - certainly their voting support - who are right wing nationalist, hostile to immigrants, hostile to "wokeness" and possibly sneaking regarders for Putin and Russia.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086447#Comment_121086447

Another person who knows nothing about Joe rogan

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086732#Comment_121086732

Joe Rogan aims his appeal at the steroids and pot market. A very credulous and lucrative market which skews pretty right wing though it also contains some of the self styled "anti-woke left" who are also a very credulous market.

He's a gobshite.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087189#Comment_121087189

No he doesn't

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086047#Comment_121086047

Yes, some spectacular bandwagon jumping.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087384#Comment_121087384

Band--wagon jumping, lol :)

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086447#Comment_121086447

Your some buachail for generalisations. Every one who sings up the ra is a paedo and everyone who watches MMA supports Putin and all shinners are right wing fascists. Even our glorious leader Leo says its a hullabaloo about nothing ( up the ra) and I agree with him totally. I can't believe your 44 🤣

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087713#Comment_121087713

You're the only person here who has said everybody who sings Up The Ra is a paedo and everybody who watches MMA supports Putin and all Shinners are right wing fascists.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087236#Comment_121087236

Thou doth protest too much.

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086212#Comment_121086212

So the only legitimate wars are on behalf of governments? I think you'll find with a little examination that many wars were fought against oppressive governments or against invaders.

What government were the French resistance fighting on behalf of? The Vichy government? What government were the ANC fighting on behalf of, and the countless other guerrilla groups that fought against colonial oppression?

Yes, the PIRA did commit war crimes, as did the British army and loyalist groups. Interesting that the British government have shown no interest over many decades in investigating their war crimes, and have now shut down any future investigations.

But then again it's hardly surprising given their record of war crimes.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/aug/18/uncovering-truth-british-empire-caroline-elkins-mau-mau

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086447#Comment_121086447

I find it very hard to believe that young Irish people as a broad group are more conservative than 20 years ago. Ireland was historically a very conservative country but has been moving steadily in a liberal direction since the 1980s. People also tend to get more conservative as they age, so the shift in attitudes has to be mainly from the younger demographics. I think it's close to 80% of school leavers that go on to some kind of third level education now, which also makes a swing to the right unlikely.

I have to say all the young Irish people I know have zero interest in Trump, Jordan Perterson and Joe Rogan, simply not on their radar. I think you're overstating the culture war angle, obviously people who spend all their lives on social media, but what percentage of people is that? Young people have college or jobs, relationships, friends, family, not many have time to obsess about cukture wars.

Twenty years ago was a great time to be young in Ireland, still in the middle of the Celtic Tiger, loads of money and opportunity, accomodation was relatively affordable and available. Things have changed, it's a real struggle now for a lot of young people. Accomodation is both unavailable and unaffordable, many young people think they can never own property in Ireland, the opposite of 20 years ago. They want change, and are sick and tired of FF/FG who have failed them. That's why they will vote SF, and links to the troubles and paedophelia mean absolutely nothing to them.

Can you imagine a FF/FG campaign worker trying to convince a young voter not to vote SF because of links to Paedophelia? These are by and large well educated and reasonably informed people. Their likely respose would be "Are even remotely serious, your parties ruled the state since it's inception and oversaw the abuses by the Catholic church, the rape of children, Magdalene launderies, Indistrial schools, etc. GTFO".

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087882#Comment_121087882

no, you emplyed it and he is just summarising what you emplyed.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088194#Comment_121088194

In your last sentence you sum it up well. Quote "Are even remotely serious, your parties ruled the state since it's inception and oversaw the abuses by the Catholic church, the rape of children, Magdalene launderies, Indistrial schools, etc. GTFO".

Young people now are more likely to want to head to a place where the Royal Family are still head of state, like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK, and where Republicans did not run a state which, to quote your own words " oversaw the abuses by the Catholic church, the rape of children, Magdalene launderies, Indistrial schools, "

Sad that many young people are now so brainwashed they chant and shout "Uh Ah Up the RA", when it is the same RA that cruelly tortured and disappeared people ( eg Jean McConville), set off over 99% of the bombs during the troubles, killing and maiming those in hotels, shopping centers, pubs, restaurants etc, and which killed our Gardai and Irish army. Well done Wolfe Tones. Not. How selfish of them to build their own fortune on the back of the misery of IRA victims and their families and friends, of which their are hundreds of thousands if not more.

growleaves

My impression is that some posters here don't quite get that hard left politics, like Marxism-Leninism, precede and are separate from "wokeness" (politicially correct liberalism) and they seemingly can't quite process that in their minds.

Some socialists go along with "wokeness", Michael D. Higgins mostly does. It doesn't mean that any left-winger who doesn't go along with it has switched his political orientation.

Often Communists can be very hostile to liberalism. Though this may not be something people have seen much of, as media culture now tends to meld all left-leaning views together and synthesise them for convenience.

Similarly, traditional Irish Catholic conservatism precedes "the alt-right" and doesn't depend on it all, and diverges from it in several ways.

growleaves

@Francis McM 'Young people now are more likely to want to head to a place where the Royal Family are still head of state, like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK, and where Republicans did not run a state which, to quote your own words " oversaw the abuses by the Catholic church, the rape of children, Magdalene launderies, Indistrial schools,"'

Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in Canada are well documented dating back to the 1960s. It has nothing to do with Republicanism vs royalism.

There have also been numerous institutional child sexual abuse cases in Northern Ireland and associated cover-ups.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/historical-institutional-abuse

https://villagemagazine.ie/the-apology-that-never-was/

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121086219#Comment_121086219

I was in the South of France in August. As you say it is an Irish thing, not one young person I spoke to was a shinner. Though they all thought highly of the French resistance so there was some commonality.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088607#Comment_121088607

Dramatic.

Are we to expect French youth to reject May 5th, or even young English people to stop wearing the poppy or going to Armistice Day etc.

I don't, I suspect you do and have met people in both countries who would like to see those days of commeration die out.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121089059#Comment_121089059

I haven't a clue what you are on about, this thread is about Republicanism and the Wolfe Tones. I was replying to someone else who mentioned that this state since it's inception oversaw the abuses by the Catholic church, the rape of children, Magdalene launderies, Indistrial schools, etc.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085012#Comment_121085012

Apart from the books plays documentary's and statues you mean ? and the intelligence job with the Irish army during ww2 . i agree thought i d like to see more . He operated in some of the areas i grew up in and was still remembered with respect.

I have a lot of respect for Tom Barry and men like him and the fact that he had the integrity to stand up the the provos and call them the scum they are adds to it.

As per standing orders shinnerbots do their best to rewrite history wen it doesn't suit their false narrative

"stating, "the men who were carrying out the recent killings... could not be called IRA".[59] He refused in that year to lend his support to Provisional IRA hunger strikers in Portlaoise Prison.[59] He was against the tactics of the Provisional IRA's campaign, particularly their use of car bombs against civilians,"

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121084589#Comment_121084589

There is no crime in detecting and destroying in wartime the spy and informer. They have destroyed without trial. We have to pay them back in their own coin.

slainte_23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077322#Comment_121077322

Indeed, and not to mention Eoin O Duffy.

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121087189#Comment_121087189

You very clearly know nothing about Joe Rogan, your post is embarrassing.

Snooker Loopy

Hilarious to see the same people who were defending the singing of Up the Ra a few weeks ago now clutching their pearls over Irish rugby fans singing Zombie by The Cranberries last night.

These people are walking satire.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150132#Comment_121150132

this never happened.

a person simply posed the question as to why it has become a sporting anthem, nothing more.

Brian Scan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072000#Comment_121072000

"You really can't blame people for defending themselves."

Very little of what PIRA did was defensive.

Brian Scan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073157#Comment_121073157

Who are you quoting? When and where was it said?

Brian Scan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076135#Comment_121076135

It's possible to believe both that the British Army were not peacekeepers, and that the IRA waged a murderous campaign which did nothing to advance the cause of a united Ireland.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121153936#Comment_121153936

most of what they did was defensive.

if it wasn't for their campaign, all of the catholics and nationalists of the north would have been cleansed, either being forced down south or slaughtered.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121154362#Comment_121154362

their campaign actually did advance the cause of a united ireland and has in a way brought it forward.

it forced the side lining of beligerent unionism, which, while it can still and does still hold NI to ransom, the power it has is now tiny in comparison to what it once had.

as well as that, it constantly throwing it's toys out of the pram because it knows the sectarian state isn't coming back, is turning people slowly but surely away from it, meaning they are waking up and realising that britain has no interest in northern ireland and no interest in investing in it or improving it.