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HURLING TEAM OF THE YEAR 2023

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    Agreed but irrelevant in relation to this years choice for all-star centre forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,232 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Kelly failed again in the game that counted most and despite hitting 4 in the Munster final he choked with a few shots to win it.

    He was no better than David Reidy but he gets no mention because he isn't a "celebrity" hurler like Kelly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    I agree with this…. for me TJ deserves his all star but if he was to lose out it could only be to Cian Lynch. Lynch was excellent in the semi final and motm for me in the final. He probably just didn’t play enough to merit inclusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    On your logic was every Kilkenny or Limerick back picked in 22 or every Kilkenny or Tipp back picked in 2014 lucky as we had cricket score finals both years? I'm not from Kilkenny and I agree TJ's inclusion is debatable but your comments on him are either a poor wind up attempt or show you haven't a clue about hurling. He might not have scored in the AI semi final but he was brilliant like I'm sure Bonner Maher had brilliant games plenty of days he contributed little or nothing on the scoreboard. He was quiet in the final but no KK forward bar Tom Phelan made a big impression.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    What are you on about?

    You say TJ didn't score in the AI semi final? And he was quiet in the final? And yet my points are wrong?

    I don't see how 22 or 14 is relevant to my points.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    How do you hit four and fail? But hit none from play and win? Kelly wins a lot of frees too. Going on the reaction on X and on pods, there's very few who think Reid should have got it.

    You could say Tom Morrissey was the first taken off in the Munster final and the all ireland final but that (fail?) doesn't tell the whole story?

    Very unfair and dismissive to call Kelly a celebrity hurler - definitely the player who has scored most from play against Limerick and tortured them most.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    You can play well as a forward without scoring things like assists, turnovers workrate etc. Just like Bonner Maher as I said who was never a prolific scorer. TJ was brilliant and had a big impact on the game in the semi final without scoring from play, in the final he had very little impact on the game.

    You claimed goalies and backs were lucky based on what their teams conceded 22 final was 1-31 2-26 and 14 drawn game 3-22 1-28 so there's 4 sets of backs lucky to get All Stars on your logic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭caddy16


    I don't think Kelly deserved an all star but calling him a celebrity hurler is bs and says more about you and your lack of hurling knowledge than anything else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    He's not a celebrity hurler but he is a hit of a media darling, good example his dive near the end of the Clare Cork to get a free overturned was terrible but wasn't even mentioned that evening on the Sunday Game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    You can definitely play well or even very well and not score as a forward but that does not make you all-star material. You cannot be brilliant as a forward and not score from play. The main objective of forward play is to score. I'd expect an all star to be scoring from play against the top teams in the big moments. Even one or two important points in the white heat of a game. I don't think that's much to ask for an all-star. It's the best of the best for the year on the big days.

    On your second point, I made points in relation to the entire championship as a whole. One point being, Dublin and Galway had conceded less in the Leinster championship. So, no, that point you make is not relevant to the points I was making.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    1st point must be remembered All Stars are opinions and nothing else, I remember after the semi finals every hypothetical team of the year had TJ in it based on his performance v Clare, after the final I think 5 forwards picked themselves really and final spot was up in the air between himself, TK and maybe 1 or 2 others.

    On your 2nd point there's plenty of nuance in it, firstly living in the real world what a team concedes in round robin games where teams are beating Antrim or Westmeath easy has very little factor in it, AI series and at a stretch provincial finals and crucial round Robin games decide All Stars, anyway if i was pursuing your point you could say Kilkenny conceded 4-23 vs Wexford when they had nothing at stake and Butler for example went off injured early in the game. Limerick conceded 1-30 vs Cork is essentially a knockout game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    Look … that poster had an issue with the goalkeeper,fullback, corner back and TJ Reid. It’s very obvious it’s the colour of their jerseys he has an issue with. Performances has nothing to do with it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    I just can't see how you can overlook Quaid and the Limerick full back line. After Kilkenny's three in a row, they got five out of the six backs and that's the way it should have been.

    This was a similar year for Limerick. Colossal performances at the back - through injuries and misfiring up front at times (especially earlier in the year), the whole lot. I don't think that's been acknowledged with this selection. And I'm making my points as to why.

    All games count towards the all star - it's based on the championship we're told. It was a leaky KK defence - held together at times by Butler and Lawlor but that fell apart in the final and many times throughout the group stages like against Antrim and Wexford (a lot of those goals were savable). This Limerick defence dosen't concede four or three goals. Pucks out fell apart for KK in the final. These are the facts of the championship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    I agree all games should count towards an all star but being realistic they don't and its weighted heavily towards the AI series, look at county by county breakdown of the team and that's the case most years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,232 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    For instance a player can hit 4 from play and another 0. But the player with 0 might have won double the frees and double the assists. Cian Lynch for instance can be man of the match and not score.

    What did Kelly get in the final. 0 because Reid had a much better semi final.

    Celebrity hurler isnt an insult. Its just a fact that certain players get talked about and put forward for stuff like this almost automatically because of their profile. All the big teams have them. For instance look at the amount of analysis Clifford will get even when other players played better. What other junior club would have gotten the attention Fossa got.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    Ah id agree with almost everything people are saying here. Not a Vintage All Star Year. Limerick have it so locked up over the last 4 or 5 years that the debate is who picks up the last 6 or 7 spots.

    As for the poster comparing David Reidy and his 4 point haul and Tony Kelly and his 4 points. Please stop. Reidy is a tidy player ,good striker of the ball. Kelly is a generational player. He can do stuff and score stuff that not even Cian Lynch can do or even attempt. That's not to denigrate Lynch who is the ultimate conductor whereas Kelly is the performer..Reidy?! Jaysus he's not in the conversation.

    Support 🇮🇱 Israel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,232 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I was being a bit tongue in cheek in response to people saying Kelly is better than Reid as an absolute fact because he scored more. So I was saying Reidy is as good as Kelly because he scored as much.

    Reidy is not in the conversation for an All Star and Kelly shouldn't be but his media darling status gets him a ticket.

    Yes he is generational and yes he "can do stuff" but he didn't this year when it really mattered and its the All Stars 2023 not the All Stars of a generation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    Kelly did an amount of damage in Munster, the same as Tom Morrissey who got an All Star which I feel was deserved. For me Hegarty deserved a nomination also. That was fairly hurtful for him id say. Iv no doubt but Hegarty will get an All Star next year.. and of course TJ if he togs out is locked in aswell ...

    As people said ..Marty Morrissey on a judging panel..Hilarious. he doesn't have an iota.

    Support 🇮🇱 Israel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,232 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Hegarty had a poor season. Haven't seen anyone mention him for an All Star other than just now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    Excellent point in relation to TK and the final…. as Billy Ocean said earlier TJ Reid was on everyone’s team of the year after the semi final performance which meant Kelly wouldn’t play the final.

    The final should of course give a player a chance to play their way onto the team of the year but a bad performance shouldn’t see them excluded. To really labour the point , Kelly didn’t get a chance to have a good or bad final largely because of TJ Reid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Mad about baa baas


    All star teams are always difficult to pick..Nash is the only lad I think can really feel hard done by..cian lynch would have got 1 if he played any more time..goalie was a toss of a coin but murphys spectacular save probably swayed it..I can't think of anyone who had more influence on his team all year at centre forward than Tj...if he never scored from play again but somehow managed to be as influential for another couple of years I would be thrilled..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,232 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Happy and not surprised Rodgers got young player.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    On the Kilkenny example if they got 5 out of 6 in the backs in 2008 its because they were streets ahead of everyone that year, a generational team at their absolute peak. Limerick cleaned up in the 2021 all stars as they were streets ahead of everyone in that championship, they certainly weren't at their peak in the Munster championship this year infact they were poor by their high standards, essentially won a knockout game by a point. Then after a poor start v Galway got back to levels no other team can live with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,232 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Hannon, Finn and R. English all injured for some or all of the championship too.

    Add them in an Limerick could take another few in the backs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Limerick are a generational team at their peak.

    Limerick won Munster, the league and the all-ireland in 2023. To say Limerick were poor in the Munster championship is silly. They got better and better in every game and continued that into the all ireland series - most champions do that. Bit of a hangover after the league against Waterford in the first round. The only good games Limerick got this year were in Munster.

    Kilkenny didn't win the league in 2008. This year, Limerick beat Kilkenny in both finals by a combined total of 20 points... on both occassions the Limerick backs put them in a vice grip and KilKenny couldn't make a dent in the finals.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    Cripes, imagine if it were Tipp!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Three hurlers of the year in a row from the same club will never be repeated. That's off the charts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    Didn't Ballyhale have three hurlers of the year M Fennelly, TJ Reid and Henry Shefflin in not so distant past? Some achievement all the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    Henry Shefflin, TJ Reid, Michael Fennelly - Shamrocks Ballyhale. Plus Young Hurler of The Year on three occasions in recent years - A Mullen and E Cody twice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101




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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    3 in five or six years - not sure. Great achievement. But it's not three in three years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    Throw in all the Club titles won by Ballyhale. How many have Patrickswell?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    12 years or pints?

    This thread is about the team of the year.... I know you're trying to make it a Tipp thing or a whatever thing but you're going off topic.

    Can't be well done to Limerick or Patrickswell, no? Just, how many titles have Ballyhale...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    Its not silly at all, I didn't say they were poor, i said they were poor by their high standards there's a massive difference in those 2 things. I'd nearly render league titles as irrelevant at this stage,hypothetically if Limerick won league, Munster and lost an AI SF or final this year would those players be disappointed with their year or say its a good year we won 2 of 3 titles available. What value was a league title in 2022 to the Waterford players after a disappointing championship, poor league campaigns didn't do Limerick any harm in 2021&22. Arguably the efforts in the league this year did Limerick no favours when they were in Munster. Limerick had tight games in Munster this year because they weren't at the levels they reached in Croke Park later in the year. No team would have lived with Limerick in the final. In fairness to both Kilkenny and Galway they've actually won all their knockout games against Munster opposition outside of Limerick the last 2 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Limerick won everything. Poor has no place in any logic on their year. Nothing else to be said on that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    Think you might run it by Kilandangan! And come back to when Liam Cahill wins as much as Cody.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Joe Ó Muirċeartaiġ poses an interesting question -

    Conor Whelan and Shane O'Donnell, first cousins to win an all star from different counties and provinces?



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