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HURLING TEAM OF THE YEAR 2023

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124

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    #92
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,411 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376054#Comment_121376054

    I agree about Limerick 1-9 but Quaid was always gonna lose out because of that save and Hannon was injured for the biggest few games. Nash especially but also Casey will be disseminated.

    With TJ part was an emotional decision I would say but also nobody was that good there this year. Lynch was great with the little time he got but missed most of the championship and I don't think Kelly done very much this year (1 point in the semi).

    If lynch had just a game or 2 more he was in for sure because even with the little he got he almost made it.



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    #93
    Charlie69
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375716#Comment_121375716

    Agreed



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    #94
    Charlie69
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376054#Comment_121376054

    Most of this is rubbish to be honest but not surprising.



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    #95
    evolvingtipperary101
    Registered Users Posts: 4,054 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376265#Comment_121376265

    I would say TK had a very good Munster campaign - scored four points from play twice against the champions - including a win against the champions (only win against them last season). 3-4 in a quarter final. That's scoring - that's exciting. Hell of a lot better than most.

    Agree that Quaid, Nash and Casey are very unlucky.



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    #96
    billyhead
    Registered Users Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭billyhead


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376054#Comment_121376054

    I'd nearly have Donal Burke ahead of Reid in the all stars pecking.



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    #97
    Charlie69
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377006#Comment_121377006

    Nearly but not quite….



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    #98
    billyhead
    Registered Users Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭billyhead


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377362#Comment_121377362

    He's carried Dublin for the last couple of years.



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    #99
    PeggyShippen
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    TJ does carry Kilkenny and stitches alit of what they do together but yes he doesn't trouble the score board from play anymore. He's gone awful slow and can't get away from anyone. Tony Kelly has set himself such huge standards that when he dips below them we don't recognise that he's still mu h better than everyone else. Theres no one gonna tell me Mikey Butler deserved an All Star. He barely touched the ball in the final...got dispossessed twice...handed off by Casey and then beaten twice more for points. John Conlon is lucky enough too. He was all at sea in the Munster final but good enough up to then.



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    #100
    YabaDabaDooley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377385#Comment_121377385

    He won us the game v Wexford with two late long range frees and was consistent in all other games especially with frees but no player is going to win an All Star not reaching a provincial final and getting hammered in an All Ireland quarter final (albeit his early injury in that game didn't help).



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    #101
    billyhead
    Registered Users Posts: 9,558 ✭✭✭billyhead


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377427#Comment_121377427

    Overall though and I know what you mean with Dublin not progressing far into the championship, in my eyes he's more deserving of an award then Reid but sure the decision makers think differently.



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    #102
    Charlie69
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377385#Comment_121377385

    Agreed but irrelevant in relation to this years choice for all-star centre forward.



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    #103
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,411 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377418#Comment_121377418

    Kelly failed again in the game that counted most and despite hitting 4 in the Munster final he choked with a few shots to win it.

    He was no better than David Reidy but he gets no mention because he isn't a "celebrity" hurler like Kelly



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    #104
    Charlie69
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377721#Comment_121377721

    I agree with this…. for me TJ deserves his all star but if he was to lose out it could only be to Cian Lynch. Lynch was excellent in the semi final and motm for me in the final. He probably just didn’t play enough to merit inclusion.



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    #105
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121376054#Comment_121376054

    On your logic was every Kilkenny or Limerick back picked in 22 or every Kilkenny or Tipp back picked in 2014 lucky as we had cricket score finals both years? I'm not from Kilkenny and I agree TJ's inclusion is debatable but your comments on him are either a poor wind up attempt or show you haven't a clue about hurling. He might not have scored in the AI semi final but he was brilliant like I'm sure Bonner Maher had brilliant games plenty of days he contributed little or nothing on the scoreboard. He was quiet in the final but no KK forward bar Tom Phelan made a big impression.



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    #106
    evolvingtipperary101
    Registered Users Posts: 4,054 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377861#Comment_121377861

    What are you on about?

    You say TJ didn't score in the AI semi final? And he was quiet in the final? And yet my points are wrong?

    I don't see how 22 or 14 is relevant to my points.



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    #107
    evolvingtipperary101
    Registered Users Posts: 4,054 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377721#Comment_121377721

    How do you hit four and fail? But hit none from play and win? Kelly wins a lot of frees too. Going on the reaction on X and on pods, there's very few who think Reid should have got it.

    You could say Tom Morrissey was the first taken off in the Munster final and the all ireland final but that (fail?) doesn't tell the whole story?

    Very unfair and dismissive to call Kelly a celebrity hurler - definitely the player who has scored most from play against Limerick and tortured them most.



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    #108
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377878#Comment_121377878

    You can play well as a forward without scoring things like assists, turnovers workrate etc. Just like Bonner Maher as I said who was never a prolific scorer. TJ was brilliant and had a big impact on the game in the semi final without scoring from play, in the final he had very little impact on the game.

    You claimed goalies and backs were lucky based on what their teams conceded 22 final was 1-31 2-26 and 14 drawn game 3-22 1-28 so there's 4 sets of backs lucky to get All Stars on your logic.



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    #109
    caddy16
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭caddy16


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377721#Comment_121377721

    I don't think Kelly deserved an all star but calling him a celebrity hurler is bs and says more about you and your lack of hurling knowledge than anything else.



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    #110
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377927#Comment_121377927

    He's not a celebrity hurler but he is a hit of a media darling, good example his dive near the end of the Clare Cork to get a free overturned was terrible but wasn't even mentioned that evening on the Sunday Game.



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    #111
    evolvingtipperary101
    Registered Users Posts: 4,054 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377908#Comment_121377908

    You can definitely play well or even very well and not score as a forward but that does not make you all-star material. You cannot be brilliant as a forward and not score from play. The main objective of forward play is to score. I'd expect an all star to be scoring from play against the top teams in the big moments. Even one or two important points in the white heat of a game. I don't think that's much to ask for an all-star. It's the best of the best for the year on the big days.

    On your second point, I made points in relation to the entire championship as a whole. One point being, Dublin and Galway had conceded less in the Leinster championship. So, no, that point you make is not relevant to the points I was making.



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    #112
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    1st point must be remembered All Stars are opinions and nothing else, I remember after the semi finals every hypothetical team of the year had TJ in it based on his performance v Clare, after the final I think 5 forwards picked themselves really and final spot was up in the air between himself, TK and maybe 1 or 2 others.

    On your 2nd point there's plenty of nuance in it, firstly living in the real world what a team concedes in round robin games where teams are beating Antrim or Westmeath easy has very little factor in it, AI series and at a stretch provincial finals and crucial round Robin games decide All Stars, anyway if i was pursuing your point you could say Kilkenny conceded 4-23 vs Wexford when they had nothing at stake and Butler for example went off injured early in the game. Limerick conceded 1-30 vs Cork is essentially a knockout game.



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    #113
    Charlie69
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377861#Comment_121377861

    Look … that poster had an issue with the goalkeeper,fullback, corner back and TJ Reid. It’s very obvious it’s the colour of their jerseys he has an issue with. Performances has nothing to do with it.



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    #114
    evolvingtipperary101
    Registered Users Posts: 4,054 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378033#Comment_121378033

    I just can't see how you can overlook Quaid and the Limerick full back line. After Kilkenny's three in a row, they got five out of the six backs and that's the way it should have been.

    This was a similar year for Limerick. Colossal performances at the back - through injuries and misfiring up front at times (especially earlier in the year), the whole lot. I don't think that's been acknowledged with this selection. And I'm making my points as to why.

    All games count towards the all star - it's based on the championship we're told. It was a leaky KK defence - held together at times by Butler and Lawlor but that fell apart in the final and many times throughout the group stages like against Antrim and Wexford (a lot of those goals were savable). This Limerick defence dosen't concede four or three goals. Pucks out fell apart for KK in the final. These are the facts of the championship.



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    #115
    Billy Ocean
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭Billy Ocean


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378614#Comment_121378614

    I agree all games should count towards an all star but being realistic they don't and its weighted heavily towards the AI series, look at county by county breakdown of the team and that's the case most years.



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    #116
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,411 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377885#Comment_121377885

    For instance a player can hit 4 from play and another 0. But the player with 0 might have won double the frees and double the assists. Cian Lynch for instance can be man of the match and not score.

    What did Kelly get in the final. 0 because Reid had a much better semi final.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121377927#Comment_121377927

    Celebrity hurler isnt an insult. Its just a fact that certain players get talked about and put forward for stuff like this almost automatically because of their profile. All the big teams have them. For instance look at the amount of analysis Clifford will get even when other players played better. What other junior club would have gotten the attention Fossa got.



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    #117
    PeggyShippen
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    Ah id agree with almost everything people are saying here. Not a Vintage All Star Year. Limerick have it so locked up over the last 4 or 5 years that the debate is who picks up the last 6 or 7 spots.

    As for the poster comparing David Reidy and his 4 point haul and Tony Kelly and his 4 points. Please stop. Reidy is a tidy player ,good striker of the ball. Kelly is a generational player. He can do stuff and score stuff that not even Cian Lynch can do or even attempt. That's not to denigrate Lynch who is the ultimate conductor whereas Kelly is the performer..Reidy?! Jaysus he's not in the conversation.



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    #118
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,411 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378803#Comment_121378803

    I was being a bit tongue in cheek in response to people saying Kelly is better than Reid as an absolute fact because he scored more. So I was saying Reidy is as good as Kelly because he scored as much.

    Reidy is not in the conversation for an All Star and Kelly shouldn't be but his media darling status gets him a ticket.

    Yes he is generational and yes he "can do stuff" but he didn't this year when it really mattered and its the All Stars 2023 not the All Stars of a generation.



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    #119
    PeggyShippen
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    Kelly did an amount of damage in Munster, the same as Tom Morrissey who got an All Star which I feel was deserved. For me Hegarty deserved a nomination also. That was fairly hurtful for him id say. Iv no doubt but Hegarty will get an All Star next year.. and of course TJ if he togs out is locked in aswell ...

    As people said ..Marty Morrissey on a judging panel..Hilarious. he doesn't have an iota.



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    #120
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,411 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378849#Comment_121378849

    Hegarty had a poor season. Haven't seen anyone mention him for an All Star other than just now.



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    #121
    Charlie69
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121378728#Comment_121378728

    Excellent point in relation to TK and the final…. as Billy Ocean said earlier TJ Reid was on everyone’s team of the year after the semi final performance which meant Kelly wouldn’t play the final.

    The final should of course give a player a chance to play their way onto the team of the year but a bad performance shouldn’t see them excluded. To really labour the point , Kelly didn’t get a chance to have a good or bad final largely because of TJ Reid.



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