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Why the reign of SUVs on Irish roads should end

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,344 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    If you are approaching or are stopped at a roundabout in the straight ahead lane with another vehicle in the right turn lane outside you the view to your right will never be clear or unobstructed, irrespective of whether it's an SUV or a motorcycle. Most drivers will move off at the same time as the vehicle in the outer lane and hope for the best. I think this is unsafe. Best to wait until the space outside is unoccupied so you have a clear view. Of course, you're likely to be blown out of it by whoever is directly behind you in the queue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    As part of a drive towards non fossil fuels would this be bad? Fossil fuels and electricity generated from same could be taxed for that purpose and avoid carbon penalties being paid by the Government (a way of paying for itself).



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are moves underway to adjust the system to account for this. Its come up in the 5 Cities demand Management Study among other govt publications over the last 3-4 years.

    They are looking at a few different options, but my guess is it will a calculation that uses vehicle weight, annual distance travelled with an emissions multiplier which will be the death knell for ICE engines. Bands would potentially apply for all 3 components of the equation

    Thats just my own guess as to how it would work but I know they are 100% looking at vehicle weight as a component of any calculation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 Balsamnews


    How is it impossible?

    It's pretty to easy to monitor an appliance that's consistently using 7kW for 8 hours every night, the only other thing in the house using that amount of electricity is an electric shower but its only on for a few mins at a time or electric heating, it will stand out like a sore thumb

    Smart meter devices will be used for this in the future, governments are not gonna lose that revenue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,192 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    What about all these pickups on the road in the last while?

    We don't have the open space of Kansas so why the requirement!

    SUVs or whatever they actually are are only a nuisance when driven by idiots.

    I don't own one, would have some version of one if funds allowed.

    Maybe a much higher motor tax might make some think twice but I can't see govt or car manufacturers doing anything to stem the sale of them in the near future.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,320 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    those pickups are all classed as commercial vehicles so far cheaper to tax than a much smaller private crossover/SUV/what have you.

    even though, as pointed out above, as often as not they're used for private use.

    SUVs or whatever they actually are are only a nuisance when driven by idiots.

    i would have a simple benchmark for what i'd class as an SUV or car to be taxed higher - if an average adult cannot see over it, it should be hit with taxes which increase exponentially the taller it gets.

    tall cars are tall regardless of whether an idiot is driving them or not.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    You don't need a metered connection to supply electricity to a car. A person with suitable means could very easily have an off grid set up used to charge the car. Any electron will do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    So the person that can afford a Rolls Royce as a trophy car which has a significant carbon footprint aside from the emissions should pay less than a person in a small car that needs it to get to work. They are already paying significant excuse and carbon taxes without adding to it

    Sorry you come out with this hobby horse 2-3 times every year. It's an unrealistic proposal.

    Actually it was stupidity like this that ended us up with all diesel cars by Eamon Ryan in the first place. Car tax has a reason, it makes sense it's not going to be replaced.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It's amazing how thick people can be. All you would need is a couple of solar panels and a battery. People that work at night might not even need a battery. It's probably only a decade away before an active charging system a solar system on the roof, bonnet or sides of the car are installed in cars to increase range of vehicles.

    Then you have people with storage heating systems, as well the move is to encourage people to use washing machines, dishwasher's dryers etc late at night. People who own businesses will fiddle the system charging cars at work or if there business is next to the house charge it at the business.

    As smart as smart metres are they are not an applicable means of taxing car charging

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    What exactly is the real reason? It will need to be replaced when everything goes electric or non fossil fuel.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Solar panels on a car won't provide a fraction of the power needed for a car ever. The way to go is to tax fossil fuel derived electricity this is easily done as is already shown on some bills.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    No it will not Government will just tax electric cars. The tax will be based on the KW capacity ( Horsepower in old money) probably at a higher rate than at present and it will probably be a quarterly tax. The other choice is to try to charge on mileage( again linked to the KW capacity of the car) but this would be open to cars being clocked to reduce tax.

    Already there are systems in place that leave no visible footprint when the mileage on a car is reduced. The only thing that prevents it is the regular milage readings at the NCT. But guess what it will be very popular if a cars tax is linked to it.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    You be surprised at how fast technology is moving. Anyway it not supposed to provide all the capacity, but a fraction could increase the range by a margin to justify it. As well while a car sits in traffic or is parked while you shop it will charge away. If it even provides 20-25,% it will have a significant effect on range.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    When you refer to thick people,do you include yourself for attaching sonar panels to a car? I think they only work on boats :-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Taken from a website..the energy isn't there whatever the technology used..

    'An average solar panel produces about 20 Watt hours per square foot under ideal conditions.

    [1]

    A Tesla model S is 196″ long and 77″ wide. If it were a rectangle (and it is not), that would be an area of 15,092 sq in. Assuming that rooftop and hood solar panels would represent 20% of this area (very generously!), this would represent 3,018 sq in, or approximately 20 square feet.

    Therefore, in maximum sunlight, at ideal angle (noon), the car will recharge at a rate of 400 watts.

    The battery capacity for a new Tesla Model S is 100kWh

    That is 100,000 watt hours

    100,000 WattHours/(400 Watt)= 250 hours, under ideal conditions.

    250 hours = 10 days and 10 hours. However, the sun sets, so there would be times without charging, plus parasitic losses as the batteries redistribute the charge, run cooling fans, run the computer to check calculations, etc. So let’s say parasitic losses are 5%, and the sun is only up 10 hours ideally (calculating in the angle during early morning and evening, where the thicker atmosphere will limit the photon input into the solar panel), and the car is somehow on a rotisserie that orients it ideally towards the sun!

    So, 250 hours *1.05= 262.5 hours, or 26.25 days!

    (The reality would probably be past 30, without the rotisserie!)

    That is not an acceptable charging solution!'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    At present solar panels are glass based because of there efficiency. However solar systems were mostly metal based 50 years ago. I saw such a system for a glasshouse ( basically copper rads and antifreeze).

    The technology of these are already being developed. I think the next Toyota Prius will have a solar element on the roof. We are probably 10-15 years away from there wholesale application

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    OK. I will dumb it down for you. Your post refers to sonar panels. Second sentence, just after you talk about dumb people. Pot and kettle and all that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Even if they were 100% efficient in the future taking all the energy available (impossible in reality) we are still talking about 10 days or so. Useful as a battery top up or driving a cooling fan only.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If you have a charging system you can cut your battery size down. Battery capacity is the limiting factor on a car, however it's not a zero sum game the bigger and heavier a batter is the less efficient a car is.

    At present an average car will use about 1KW every 4-6 miles, this will probably increase over the next ten year. A 1KW system could provide about 10-15% add in time parked or in traffic and you could add 20-25% in normal driving conditions.

    The Tesla is a bad example as it's an over specification car. Average capacity at present is about 43kw and it's expected to be 45KW in 2025.

    I am not sure about the Prius specifications, but technical innovation will probably multiply it by 400% I. 10 years

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I posted solar not sonar everyone know Sonar is for detecting under water that is just to dumb it down for you, so I missspelled it once

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,861 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    FFS, would you stop digging against what was a simple jibe!

    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    As I posted I missspelled it once and had the correct spelling two lines down. I am not digging I just hate lads that make a song and dance about spelling on a forum where you are posting off a phone.

    The simple fact is he did not like being shown up on his a taxation system that tried to tax cars on electrical usage was doomed to failure.

    It just like Saabsaab failure to understand a solar panel on a car will not be to completely charge the car but to add capacity, range and reduce the need to charge a car on a journey

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Solar panels on a car will never significantly help with range or charging, the energy simply isn't available there. Even advanced new batteries with greater capacity fast times etc still will need the energy!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    You do not understand the concept just like you fail to understand the reason car tax is preferred to imposing more tax on car fuel

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I do understand. The energy is not available in your scenario. As for the car tax it is the same as the TV licence outdated and will have to be replaced



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭creedp


    I dont understand why its considered outdated? Can understand why people consider that the TV license is outdated as the TV doesnt have a number plate and is not used in a public place coupled with the fact that you dont need an actual TV to watch television.

    Dont get me wrong Im not pro car tax but cant see what has changed to make taxing a car outdated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well this explains it somewhat..from the I Independent

    'Now the big one, we can get rid of motor tax altogether. Don’t all jump for joy just yet because it’s just moving to fuel instead.

    I am a big advocate of shifting motor tax onto the fuel we buy, I am aware that fuel is already loaded with taxes but I’m taking about one or two cent here.

    So what happens if we go this route?

    1. Motor tax offices close because there are no arrears or discs and change of ownership is performed online.

    2. There’s no forgetting to pay road tax, every time you put fuel in the tank you pay it.


    3. Those who drive more pay more. Seems simple I know but you won’t have to pay tax on a car that only does 5,000kms per year. But those who drive a big fuel guzzler will have to pay more because they use more fuel.

    4. No more paperwork, reminders, red letters or any other contact from the motor tax office would save a fortune in postage alone.

    So why aren’t we getting rid of it?

    Money. At the moment the Government can look at how many cars are paying tax and get a good idea just how much will be raised from Motor tax every year. If it moved to fuel they could only estimate depending on driver habit. There’s also the problem of fuel laundering and people near the border who will buy it there. In an ideal world this could easily work, it’s worked in New Zealand for many years, even France moved the tax to fuel but Ireland seems to have a blind spot with it.

    While there’s many good and bad points the big factor here is choice; drivers would be able to make a choice about how much tax they pay. If they want to have a car but only use it at the weekend then no more paying for a lump of metal that sits outside the door 75% of the time.

    Older cars would pay the same taxes as the newer cars which would bring more trade to the used market which would increase the tax take on everything else.


    It’s about time that the motorist in Ireland got a break, they pay tax on everything and when you look at VRT and VAT there’s even a tax on a tax surely we can get rid of the biggest problem Motor Tax.'



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I don't think it's car tax that is outdated, it's the current combined approach that see's motoring tax made up of three components, an annual emissions based tax, a one off vehicle registration tax, and excise duty applied at that pump. As we move away from combustion engines the excise duty will drop. That's where the discussion of an alternative approach comes from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,500 ✭✭✭MarkN


    The solar setup available on the new Prius adds a maximum of 8kms per day currently. Not sure how many hours of light that needs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭creedp


    Of the 3 leafs of the shamrock, its the excise duty that will become less relevant given the accelerating transition to EVs. VRT & Motor Tax can be applied to EVs just as easily as they currently can to ICEs. IMO proposals to replace excise duty on fuel with an equivalent on electricity used to charge EVs is not currently feasible. Any system of usage based tax applicable to EVs will have to be based on distance travelled which will take a protracted period of time to design and implement, again in my IMHO. In the meantime throwing out the cash cow baby with the bathwater may not be considered desirable



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