Why the reign of SUVs on Irish roads should end

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343212#Comment_121343212

Not a great example there, at a roundabout in the left lane you will be marginally ahead of the car to the right due to the curvature of the yield line following the circle of the roundabout, you will therefore see happily across the bonnet of the car to the right unless it is an SUV van or Truck or you have your seat adjusted like a nonce so you can barely see over the steering wheel.

Try it, you will be surprised.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344688#Comment_121344688

So you cannot see over the bonnet of a Hyundai Kona it's a crossover similar to a Tuscon what many describe as an SUV

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344434#Comment_121344434

Tax on fuel could of been a good idea a few years ago, but for reasons that have been explained a couple of times on thread excise duty is increasingly losing it's ability to be fit for purpose. Removing motor tax and VRT completely whilst increasing excise duty moves the tax burden to those who can't afford to buy a car that doesn't run on petrol and diesel.

I wouldn't be a fan of a system that results in the better off in our society getting a huge price reduction on a luxury purchase paid for by the people who are driving a ten year old utilitarian car.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344737#Comment_121344737

Can you show me where I said anything about crossovers please?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344778#Comment_121344778

The Tucson is a crossover as well. What are you describing as an SUV.

An SUV is mainly a Santa Fe and bigger

Balsamnews

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343444#Comment_121343444

99% won't have that

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345353#Comment_121345353

They won't today, but if it saves you over a €1000/year on excise duty on charging a car you can bet people would be quick to implement it.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345453#Comment_121345453

Agree. Designing a system that has known workarounds is poor policy practice. Unless it is decided to go full big brother and charge people per KM travelled using a GPS tracking system then taxing EVs based on distance travelled will not be an easy or quick option to implement. Far easier, in the short term, to tweak the current motor tax system to justify increased EV taxation based on their particular attributes, namely battery size / vehicle weight / efficiency, etc.

Balsamnews

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345453#Comment_121345453

A few will, but the savings won't be €1000 a year, they are not gonna go that crazy, it will be like cancelling Netflix savings, most people are lazy and not gonna bother with that mess to save a few euro a week and will just accept it, it will be the boiling frog method.

Lets say they add 5c excise duty on a unit of electricity for EV's and that 15c unit night rate electricity becomes 20c for your car, the savings will only be €170 a year for your average 15k km driver, if they go crazy and 10c to a unit to make it 25c a unit it will still only be €350 a year, people spend that on rubbish like Netflix.

Why would people bother making an off grid supply in the future anyway when renewable will be 100% of our power needs in the future and we will be gone from bad fossil and electricity will be dirt cheap thanks to the wonderful solar, wind, battery tech :)

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345583#Comment_121345583

Excise duty on petrol is currently about 64c/l. Taking an average petrol golf as an example fuel consumption appears to be 5.5l/100km. An average Irish driver covers 17,000km meaning they're paying about €600 per year in fuel excise. If as proposed by some others here we also move the annual car tax to fuel, it's probably closer to €750 a year. To replace that source of funding we'd need to make sure the amount being charged to an individual was similar.

If you've already got solar panels installed at your property, are you telling people wouldn't pay to modify the circuit to save €750 a year. I think people would, it's going to be much easier to get away with than people who use green diesel, no roadside check can identify how the battery was charged.

Balsamnews

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345709#Comment_121345709

They are obviously not going to go that crazy where the excise duty is more expensive that the energy itself, it will be a boiling frog as I said and even if they did go crazy, do you not have fate in renewables? Why would electricity be expensive in the future when we have all our solar, wind, battery tech etc? The theory says with 100% renewable it should be dirt cheap, you don't believe it? You think we will still be paying a fortune in 2030 and beyond and consumers will have madmax setups for offgrid charging?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345790#Comment_121345790

I don't see why the excise duty that needs to be replaced from current fuel consumption is related to the price of electricity. We have a source of tax that goes into general taxation, as the motive power source changes from burning fuel (with excise duty) to electrification that source of tax needs to be replaced with something else. You proposed a tax on electricity used to charge cars, my posts are showing why it's not all that achievable.

Excise duty on fuel was a pretty good system, there was a direct correlation between how much a given car was used and the amount of fuel bought, and in general, bigger cars used more fuel. The same is true for electrified cars, but there are too many simple workarounds available meaning it's not a good idea to propose an excise duty based on a smart metering as you did.

If you are just looking to reduce the amount of tax that motorists contribute to the government funds, then that's a whole different politics question.

Balsamnews

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345916#Comment_121345916

Why are you ignoring the renewable questions?

The workarounds are niche, you know that, 99% won't bother with that mess and most don't have the skill to do it themselves and the government can easily outlaw electricians doing that kind of of work

It's like people not paying for Sky, Netflix etc and just putting in a vpn at the router level and pirating everything, very few do that, most will just pay for Sky, Netfix etc

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346118#Comment_121346118

I don't see what the pricing of electricity due renewables has to do at all with replacing a tax on motoring with another tax on motoring. Excise duty is a fixed amount per litre of fuel, an excise duty on electricity used to charge cars would be a fixed amount per kWh. The base price of either input doesn't affect the tax applied, or the amount that a government would need to apply to maintain a cost neutral change.

I think you are very niave if you think people won't pay for a simple switch that can save them €750 per year per car. I also don't think banning electricians from doing the work is going to be effective.

As to your distraction re media piracy, most people pay for their media because it's a pain to set up a straightforward system that allows the ease of use of Netflix/Sky.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344688#Comment_121344688

I do try it. It's not possible to have what I would describe as a clear enough view to enable you to decide whether to proceed or not. I drive a standard car with a normal driving position. In addition you could have traffic from as many as four different lanes converging upon you in the scenario I describe. How often have you been surprised by a fast moving vehicle coming from the opposite side of the roundabout intending to exit at the same place you intend entering?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346182#Comment_121346182

You would not even need a switch. If you charge you car or run you washing machine when you are generating renewable energy from solar or your own turbines your smart metre knows nothing about it's you own controller on your system that carries out everything.

The trick would be to install a back up battery to store renewable generated during the day to use to charge your car at night or even in the evening time. Most solar systems produce excess electricity during the day. Technically you could even charge the battery on night rate and then use it to charge your car during the day.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121346118#Comment_121346118

There is no skill needed or work arounds. Your renewable system is on your side of the meter. The smart meter only records excess electricity that is exported it records nothing on electricity produced by your system your renewable control system records that. Technically you do not need it to record anything as excess is just exported.

You need to do nothing to use the system the only thing you will need is a battery to store daytime produced renewable to use on your car which is an option already there that some people opt for.

To replace average car tax is about 350-400/ vehicle. The real problem for government is to replace a tax to replace excise on Transport fuels. Significant car taxes will be needed and avoidable taxes on electricity are not the answer

kaahooters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058231473/why-the-reign-of-suvs-on-irish-roads-should-end

jesus that article is stuipd and full of misinformation.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350003#Comment_121350003

First we had Big Tobacco

Then Big Pharma

Followed closely by Big Alcohol

Now arriving Big Auto

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350003#Comment_121350003

Up there with one of the most stupid is that SUVs emit far more co2 than EVs

Ramasun

I'd agree with the idea of discouraging large vehicles in urban areas.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350724#Comment_121350724

I agree we should ban buses

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350724#Comment_121350724

Sure, let's start with the largest vehicles - buses.

yagan

What worries me is seeing older relatives taking to these bigger vehicles that they would have scoffed at twenty years ago because they simply want to ride higher as their sight isn't as sharp as in the past and their dodgy hip prefers the easier step in.

Regardless they're now complaining about how much harder it is to park whereas before it was much easier in their more sensible sane sized cars.

Balsamnews

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121348009#Comment_121348009

There is no skill involved in putting a magnet on my electricity meter to stop it going round and getting cheaper electricity, but few would do that workaround or setup a proxy to get netflix cheaper etc, there is an easy work around for most things but people don't do it.

If the government add excise duty to electric car charging they will bring in legislation that you cant tamper with it and people will comply

We saw with covid that people here will comply with anything even if it makes no sense

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350943#Comment_121350943

Covid is a bad example as measures were based in sense. However not paying the TV license does make sense when RTE execs continuously try to keep details private from the public.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350908#Comment_121350908

They should be getting glasses, a marginally higher driving position won't do anything for their vision.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350987#Comment_121350987

I know that, you know that, but as this society ages you're going to get more driver with declining abilities climbing into bigger cars because they feel safer. I've a relative in Florida who says the cops over there don't even bother taking details when elderly drivers have a fender bender and no one is hurt. They just clear the wrecks off the road and let the older people go their insurance, but most won't as they don't want to pay higher premiums so buying another bigger tougher SUVs is the new trend.

It feels like a kind of arms race.

Ash.J.Williams

Why don't our leaders design a people's car , and we all drive the same car , max speed 120km

Balsamnews

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350958#Comment_121350958

Yep I won't be paying that again

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121350908#Comment_121350908

The sector they are buying IE. crossover suv lite didn't exist 20 years ago.

The easier access and more comfortable driving position is the big attraction.

Better view of the road rather than an antidote to failing eyesight.

Parallel parking can be a bit of a challenge but many models have cameras.