Why the reign of SUVs on Irish roads should end

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461730#Comment_121461730

While I think that might have been a reasonable position back in the day of small batteries and free public charging, the cost of charging a 70+kwh battery car could potentially cost €21+ at a reasonable domestic day rate or €40+ at public charging rates, so IMO no longer insignificant. Long may a potentially significant BIK remain untaxed for those who benefit most

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461809#Comment_121461809

That's around the price of 4 coffees from Starbucks/Costa. It's hard to track the benefit, do you charge someone the €21 BIK versus they're night rate or €40 because they avoiding an Applegreen charger. I think it's the cost of tracking that makes it a negligble benefit, just like the benefit incurred from coffee, fruits and biscuits.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121461988#Comment_121461988

Wouldnt mind my employer throwing me a pittance €40 a week to offset the €60 a week I spend on bus fares.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462056#Comment_121462056

Fortuneately for you can forego income tax on the money spent on your monthly bus ticket for commuting, no such scheme for people comuting via cars.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462468#Comment_121462468

Not worth my while as Id need to be using bus 7 days a week for it to be of value especially when you take leave any any working from home into account. In any case that's no business of my employer who would laugh in my face if I suggested I deserved a few extra bob to help me get to work.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462508#Comment_121462508

Taxsaver tickets are an employer related scheme, it's one of the biggest flaws with the system. They need to enable it usually via a partnership with a company such as travel hub.

Most employers are somewhat concerned with the ability to get their staff to their place of work, as reducing the cost to do so can increase the available number of potential employees which is great for reducing wage demands.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462539#Comment_121462539

I charged at work for a while in the early days when I was pretty much the only EV driver in the place and it was a great benefit to be able to head off every day with a full battery to use as I please. Fantastic to have absolutely free door to door commute and for family activities. Far more beneficial than a taxsaver ticket which, as I said earlier, is of limited value unless you use it every day of the year.

Wouldnt have a problem contributing towards the cost of said charging but of course never look a gift horse in the mouth.

liamog

Similar to companies making the bike to work scheme available. I've had a tax-free bike and taxsaver commuting tickets but we never got as far as charge points in work. I'd be happy if there was a government scheme to fund at-cost charging in workplaces, it might make the switch easier for anyone without a driveway.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462702#Comment_121462702

Government isn't going to incentivising people to drive to work, when the whole policy focus is on incentivising public transport usage. These are private cars, private property. People need to be making their own arrangements for storage, charging of their private property.

Baba Yaga

why do i,after reading this thread,have such a huge,unexplainable urge to go out and buy the biggest petrol/diesel engined,proper 4x4 Land Rover/Land Cruiser/Patrol/real Jeep i can find...?

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462754#Comment_121462754

You could argue they are by not subjecting free EV charging to BIK. Dont tell ER when he returns from hob nobbing with the Oil Sheiks over in Dubai. Imagine if he found out that massive EV SUVs are being charged free of charge by employers.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462790#Comment_121462790

A friend of mine has just put down a deposit on a Ranger Raptor 3L petrol which spews out 315gkm burning 13L/100km. Had a burn in one and what a wonderful noise.

Would love one but costs a fortune to buy and run one for a mere mortal paye worker but not so bad for business/self employed chappie. My buddie is self employed builder but the Ranger is a pure trophy car and will never tow or get its cargo bed dirty. Lucky git is all I can say

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462754#Comment_121462754

Just like many things in the swtich to a more sustainable transportation system the state has a role in ensuring we don't leave people behind. We could drive bulldozers around the city, levelling neighbourhoods and rebuilding every property with it's own private parking. A much better alternative is to provide workable solutions instead, enabling cost based workplace is one such measure that can helps us move to cleaner transport systems.

There are many measures we should take to get us to more sustainable communities, they don't need to be mutually exclusive.

The privaleged people with driveways may be delighted to get people off the roads, but I think that's unfair and shouldn't be a route people support.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462702#Comment_121462702

And most people availing of the bike to work scheme use it to buy bikes to use for there or there families leisure activities. It often now used as an additional tax free allowance.

The campaign against SUV's ( essentially against its a campaign against crossovers) is really an anti car campaign and if it was successful (unlikely because car manufacturers are not going to change car design for one small country) they will move onto there next car target.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465267#Comment_121465267

Don't suppose you have any source for your 'most people' claim?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121464484#Comment_121464484

The priority of the State should be in not leaving people behind with public transport services, rather than subsidising private car travel. The State didn't provide petrol stations, so I'm not sure why it would be expected to provide or subsidise charging facilities. It's absolutely ridiculous for the State to have a target for EVs. The target should to have LESS vehicles on the road, regardless of type.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468460#Comment_121468460

That's a political decision you want to make. My politics don't include abandoing anybody who doesn't happen to live in the right kind of built community and work in it's paired location, for that to work their has to be some action from the state to help them, I'd rather that help came in the guise of funding sensible charging infrastructure instead of bulldozers to rebuild their communites in a more sustainble model.

Neither of us is right or wrong, its just politics.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469602#Comment_121469602

You have a thing for knocking anything public transport related as a political topic, you need to get over that and face the reality that just because you say something is political doesn't make it so.

It's not politics.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469735#Comment_121469735

The choice of whether we want to have cars on the road or not comes down to political choices that are made with regard to how we as a society want to structure our communities. Politics is the process of coming together as a group and making decisions especially with regard to how we use and share resources. Supporting a policy of car reduction is absolutely a political one.

Not sure where you're seeing me knocking public transport as a political topic. Generally my thoughts on politics and public transport is that our current government is failing massively at providing a system fit for an urban conurbation of 2m people and that they should spend more time looking at European cities and replicating what they do. Not entirely sure what has to do at all with a motors forum?

Hurrache

Your post has a bit of a split personality going there. On one hand you decry the fact our government is not replicating other European cities, their policies in which banning cars from cities plays a large part, and yet you wonder what this has to do with a motoring forum? It's sticking its fingers in it's ears and hiding behind the fact this is purely political and has no place for discussion in a motoring forum.

On this basis though I'll be happy to see all the yellow cards dished out any time there's discussion on motor and vehicle taxation, excise duties, tolls, parking charges etc because, you know, all political decisions.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121470512#Comment_121470512

You'd need to discuss the card situation with a moderator of the motor's forum, I only moderate the EV subforum. As for why motoring related policies such as taxation/fuel duty etc are discussed on a motoring forum, I think the answer is pretty obvious. I'm also not sure what you mean by split personalities, it's completely possible to support public transport measures and have an interest in cars at the same time. The world doesn't need to be a black and white culture war divided on tribal lines.

This thread is about a political position people have taken regarding the number of SUVs on our roads. It's completely relevant to motoring, to claim there's no politics involved in proposing a policy regarding them is just plain wrong.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121469823#Comment_121469823

The choice isn't really about having cars on the road or not. The choice is about who should pay for the infrastructure to fuel private cars.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462885#Comment_121462885

They are a lovely car/truck to be fair. You'd have to like them to buy the petrol, considering most folks would prefer the diesel raptor to claim the vat back on the fuel. Speaking as someone who currently owns 3 EVs but whose all time dream garage would include a 6BT powered dodge ram.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471862#Comment_121471862

The state doesnt pay for the petrol infrastructure, so it (we) shouldnt pay for the Ev infrastructure. Ideally. However we have yearly fines for CO2 breaches and that fine money would be better spent avoiding future fines by subsidising EVs.

Cordell

The state pays for infrastructure for private homes and private businesses so why would private cars' infrastructure be any different?

Alias G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462790#Comment_121462790

It is called small penis syndrome.

Baba Yaga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471898#Comment_121471898

and proud of me wee willie too!!!

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471862#Comment_121471862

The reason I feel there is a place for the state to be involved is to address the massive inequity between people who are privileged to own their own homes with private parking, versus those who live in shared streets, renting a property. With the right setup a person could reduce their cost per km to a negligible amount versus a person who has to charge at eCars DC chargers. I think it's fundamentally unfair that a more well-off person can create their own electricity and charge a car at 0c/kWh versus the renter paying 68.2c/kWh (eCars rate) to use their car for the same journeys. For a car with an efficiency of 18kWh/100km at average annual mileage that's a difference of €2,000 per year.

We're mandating the removal of combustion engines from our cities. I think it should be done in a way that doesn't give the better off such a huge benefit whilst giving no saving at all to the renter currently using a combustion car. The policy results in giving to the rich and those who were lucky enough to buy a house before we decided that urban semi-detached sprawl was a bad idea, and doing nothing for the middle-income earners or those who choose to live in denser more sustainable housing stock.

If you want the government to have a target of less cars (your own words), we shouldn't do so by pricing poorer people off the road whilst giving the rich a discount. If we want to maintain the cost of motoring by adding new taxation measures on alternatively fuelled vehicles, we have to do so in a way that's equitable so that those who can't afford to pay end up paying the most.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468460#Comment_121468460

Just go into tge average workplace where people avail of this tax relief and see how many actually cycle yo work. Before I retired about 20 had availed of it and only 2-3 actually cycled to work. Most bikes bought with the allowance are for leisure activities.

Similar at present where my children work my son actually bought one for leisure activities

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472116#Comment_121472116

You just reminded me of someone I know who got a bicycle and a lawnmower plus a dodgy invoice.

The bike is used for leisure cycling but was never used to go to work.

It might seem like a tall story but it's true.

On the other hand I wonder if anyone has done a cost/benefit analysis on the scheme.

I have a feeling that it was more successful in urban areas but I could be wrong.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121472174#Comment_121472174

Yes heard of similar situations where lads got credit notes in the store and used it to buy different sports and leisure gear

CBA's on anything green are not allowed.