Why the reign of SUVs on Irish roads should end

Calahonda52

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0201/1277072-suvs-ireland-fuel-safety-energy-climate-change/

Food for thought alright

There are many solutions to tackle the SUV problem, which will need bold action from policymakers. These solutions – taxation, education and exclusion – have parallels with the successful campaign against cigarette smoking.

Wanderer78

....is substantially expanding our public transport network, and possibly making it free to use, a solution to this.....

Cordell

In terms of size and weight the average SUV is similar to the average family saloon.

The tax rate is based on CO2 emissions which is directly proportional to the fuel consumption, so if they are fuel hungry they are already taxed accordingly.

Lantus

If eu policy makers are looking to how to tax and regulate future electric cars then drag coefficient and weight would be 2 ways to push towards better cars. Look at the aptera. The aircraft design makes 1000km+ on a single charge viable.

Gant21

SUV’s were and always hideous. Of course the Thomas and Shirlies with their two kids Emily and twainan think it’s a life necessity.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585473#Comment_118585473

The automotive equivalent of the McMansion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585471#Comment_118585471

Should just be on weight, not emissions. Fully electric SUVs will need huge batteries, with the resulting increased demand for electricity and the minerals used in their manufacture

I think that we are starting to move away from a focus on direct CO2 emissions to looking broader at all indirect CO2 emissions and other environmental impacts. And they are directly proportional to size

Plus they’re too big for our roads

Cordell

They aren't too big, they only appear big. Out of those 55% the vast majority are the likes of Tucson and Sportage which are in fact smaller than a Passat.

Wildly Boaring

Define SUV?

Land cruiser, Discovery.... definitely

Disco sport

Sorento

Kodaiq

CRV, RAV 4, 5008,

Kuga, Sportage, Tuscon, Tiguan, ID4

Ateca, Karoq, 3008

2008, T-roc

Where's your line??

Fuel efficiency? Well CRV diesel used get over 50mpg. Ateca and Tiguan pretty near.

ICE going will sort this, natural selection.

Height. Drag? Newer ones have got it right down ....

If we're just talking about the big LC and Disco, I'd fully agree with taxing out of existence bar commercial.

Rest, are they any better/worse really?

forestgirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585473#Comment_118585473

I think you secretly want one 😏

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585471#Comment_118585471

they're a similar size only if you choose to ignore 'height' as being a component that makes up size. some of the more obvious examples are more than six foot tall.

bigroad

Plenty of commercials used as daily kid transport.

Double cab pickups.yes

Disco,rangerover,landcruiser with 5 seats yes.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585526#Comment_118585526

Agreed. I'd be all for making these types and RR etc commercial only (don't care how many seats in them) and enforce it.

Tie them to companies properly and audit use properly. Mileage trackers etc. Still be some misuse but these auditors are getting tougher every year.

Stick out like a sore thumb fairly quickly. Customs could be on them like VRT

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585506#Comment_118585506

How does the height matter? Length and width take road space, weight exponentially affect road wear, but what does height do?

Wildly Boaring

But I just walked past a tuscon and an id3 beside eachother. 4 or 5 inches in it height wise?

Lot of these crossovers/soft SUVs be hard to define

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585541#Comment_118585541

visibility. takes visibility from other road users - drivers, pedestrians, cyclists. mainly a factor in urban areas, not so much an issue in a rural context.

StupidLikeAFox

Why all the hate for SUVs? 90% aren't obscene yokes, they are comfortable to drive and are practical for lugging kids or associated **** around.

omanomad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585562#Comment_118585562

As usual with boards it’s just a loud mouthed minority. Go and speak to people in the real world and ask them what they think of suvs and 99% would say they like them or else have no opinion of them. Or simply look at the amount of suvs outside houses in your park, that tells you all you need to know about what the majority of people think of suvs. The ones that say they hate them are the sort of nutcases that go about shouting at birds, don’t worry about them.

Flinty997

SUVs seem to take up a lot more room when parking. I know they say they mostly aren't any wide, but it doesn't feel like that.

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586021#Comment_118586021

They are the new generation Mercedes drivers. Park up and take up two spaces.

Ubbquittious

I dont mind SUVs. Never had one and probably never will but I don't see why the hate.

A similar hate for SUVs appeared around 2005. At the time they did drink a lot more fuel than ordinary cars but this isn't really the case with the modern ones unless you get something properly luxurious. I don't get it, why cant people mind their own business as to what sort of cars people decide to drive?

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585502#Comment_118585502

I don't own one but this is a point I always make when people bring this up, and people rarely answer it.

Some saloons and estates take up much, if not more, road space and are efficiency can be common across them. But they're deemed more acceptable.

elperello

Most of the manufacturers are moving away from traditional saloons and estates especially in the family car sector, so if people want a car with room for kids, gear, dog etc. they are pretty much confined to the small to medium car based SUV's.

Most of these are the same width and length as the vehicles they are based on. They may be a bit taller but I don't see that as a road space issue.

As for the big SUVs they are already very expensive to purchase and attract high annual motor tax.

For example a RR Sport costs €109,520 and motor tax is €2400 pa.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/land-rover-range-rover-sport-on-order-hse-dynam/29138409

Phil.x

The greens have an unhealthy obsession about suv's,

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586214#Comment_118586214

SUVs are are still less efficient even if that's exaggerated and modern technology helps to elevate it a bit.

CianRyan

I dislike SUV's because they are just less enjoyable machines. They drive like half sunken boats but can't even make it over rough terrain. All looks, no substance.

There are far fewer options available for those who have a family but also enjoy driving. You could throw an Old Primera around a bend that a Qashqai would flip through.

Nissan don't even offer any saloon cars in Ireland anymore. They exist but not in Europe.

I could throw more rambling thoughts in here but it would end up as a short story without merit.

freshpopcorn

People I know bought SUv/Cross overs/etc for the following reasons.

They like being a little higher up.

Some find them easier to get in and out of.

Folding down the rear seats and putting stuff in them is easy enough. I know this is possible with other cars also.

Some aren't gone on the shape of saloons and they aren't mad on parking them either.

People do seem to like the look of them.

Also a lot of drivers aren't overly pushed about performance and being a bit slower doing 0- 100km/h.

We don't have one by the way.

Flinty997

I think SUV use internal storage very poorly unless you get a huge one. Style over substance for the most part. But you can only buy what's available.

Gregor Samsa

People who don’t know any better mouth off against SUVs like everyone is driving Hummers on the school run. The vast majority of SUVs on Irish roads are no bigger in width or length than regular cars, and even the height isn't that significant on most - about 20cm. Someone above mentioned that some of the most obvious examples are over 6ft. Range Rovers, maybe (which aren't even SUVs), but even rare massive yokes like the BMW X7 or an Audi Q7 is under 6 foot tall.

I’ve a Skoda Superb estate. Longer and wider than common large SUVs like the Hyundai Tuscon, a VW Tiguan or a Nissan X Trail, let alone the smaller crossover ones like the T-Roc, Qashqai or new C4. There's only a handful of very large and expensive SUVs that are in any way common, like the the XC90 and X5, that take up more space than it, and even then it's 10cm in the length and less than 20 in the width.

As for visibility, the little bit of extra height on and SUV is nothing compared to what a van, truck or artic blocks out. Yet we share our roads with thousands of them every day.

Personally, I prefer the form-factor of cars over SUVs - an estate for a large one, a hatchback for a small one. I personally don't understand why saloons exist (well, of course I do really, but I wouldn't be interested in buying one), but I wouldn't knock anyone for preferring them. Same with SUVs - some people like the slightly higher driving position, some people with age-related joint issues find them easier to get in and out of. Some people with young children find them easier to deal with car seats, or getting bags and buggy in and out of the boot. They're popular for a reason.

The article in the OP is about fuel efficiency. That's a completely different argument than one about the form factor of the vehicle. For some reason the two get confused.

magicbastarder

20cm is significant. the difference between a 150cm tall vehicle and a 170cm tall vehicle is the difference between someone of average height being able to see over one, and not being able to see over one. in an urban context, with them parked on the street as an example, it means that someone crossing the road cannot see over a parked car, and just as important, motorists cannot see them behind the parked car.

and yes, of course we share the roads with commercial vehicles which are bigger. but they're quite a bit rarer, and they usually *need* to be that size. it'd be a bit ridiculous to claim that because artics are taller, it makes no difference for SUVs to be tall too; i don't think it makes sense to use the size of an artic to justify the size of a private car.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586519#Comment_118586519

What's an SUV?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585562#Comment_118585562

Because nanny staters can't help forcing their morality on others and they've designated the SUV as a new social ill

Typical elitist liberals looking down on the middle Ireland citizen, nothing new

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586609#Comment_118586609

They are much better for people with bad backs ,try strapping in a kid when there is a saloon compared to an SUV

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586904#Comment_118586904

Slovenly Ugly Vehicle.

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586943#Comment_118586943

From what I see people think the struggle is worth it.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586935#Comment_118586935

I though the idea of a SUV was you could look down on other people. I take it that's not working out.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586943#Comment_118586943

That is true. But ironically many are tight for space in the rear with narrow openings and restricted rear doors. People would be wise to check on the model before they buy. Especial those with coupe roof lines. Same is true of saloons. There are even MPVs that aren't that big either.

magicbastarder

Range Rovers, maybe (which aren't even SUVs)

what's an SUV so? range rover themselves call the evoque an SUV and a quick google shows plenty of range rover dealers refer to them as SUVs.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585562#Comment_118585562

I've never seen one that isn't ugly. Which I don't have a problem with. I'm not the one signing myself up to a contract to "own" one. If people want to spend silly money on stupid looking brand new cars that don't serve any utilitarian purpose whatsoever, that's entirely a matter for themselves. My hatred for them is based mainly on how they're driven. I don't know if it's because of the size or the driving position, but most people (male or female) who drive them don't seem to be very aware of their surroundings.

Capt'n Midnight

If there's slow moving traffic I like being able to see though the car in front so I can see what's going on ahead.

If you are in an SUV on a side road I probably won't let you in. It's selfishness but hey you started it when you got an SUV. That extra visibility you get with a high position has a price. With vans it's different because there's no expectation of being able to see through a goods vehicle.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587146#Comment_118587146

or if you come to a junction and say you're turning left and the car alongside is turning right. if it's a normal car, you can see through it. often, if it's an SUV, you're on the eyeline of their door handle.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586445#Comment_118586445

The road tax on that Range Rover is only €170 per year, not €2,400.

Montage of Feck

Most of those SUV are a spec level below their equivalent priced car models.

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586904#Comment_118586904

Stupid Ugly Vehicle

Ave Sodalis

My biggest issue with them are their lights. They just are at perfect eye level when you're not in an SUV, so they blind you when coming towards you even when dipped.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587143#Comment_118587143

I've never seen one that isn't ugly.

There is one: an AMG Mercedes G wagon!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587183#Comment_118587183

*cough, no it is not!

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587333#Comment_118587333

I'd argue that the Mercedes G Class is at least a properly useful off-road vehicle. The average modern SUV does nothing that can't be done with a normal estate car.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587183#Comment_118587183

Sorry I used the pic of the PHEV version in error.

Most of the ICE RRs are €2400 but some are €1250 which is still a lot of tax.

The PHEV is low because the emissions are low.

Attached the ICE list.

https://www.carzone.ie/new-cars/land-rover/Range-Rover-Sport/sports-utility-vehicle

Flinty997

"...fuel consumption: 15.0 l/100km (combined), 16 mpg (combined US), 6.7 km/l (combined), 19 mpg (combined UK) ;..."

"...Performance: maximum speed 176 mph, 283 km/h acceleration 4.5 seconds (0-100 km/h)

Power: (from primary fuel) 423 kW , 575 HP EEC @ 6,000 rpm; , 700 Nm @ 3,500 rpm.."

Perfect for the school run...

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587333#Comment_118587333

*Cough, yes it is!

The poster linked a Range Rover Sport P400e.

The road tax on that car is €170.

Care to prove me wrong?

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587425#Comment_118587425

Nope. 2 litre hybrid is €170. 2 litre diesel is €570. 3 litre diesel is €750. Pre 2008 is €1,800 on engine size motor tax but most of them have been crew cabbed so they are only €333. And then theres a few from 2008 to 2014 that are €1200.

The only ones on the €2,400 tax band are the 5 litre SVR models. There are probably less than 10 of those in the country