Why the reign of SUVs on Irish roads should end

alias no.9 · 12-02-2022 01:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620218#Comment_118620218

It's not so much that they trade down a chassis, they buy to a price.

Given the choice of a C segment crossover or a D/E segment saloon / hatch, they're picking the crossover. We all make choices based on budget.

Manufacturers love this because they're getting bigger economies of scale with more of their sales coming from the same platform.

12-02-2022 01:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620222#Comment_118620222

Are those deaths due to the car, or the driver?

And I suspect at least some cyclists play a large part in the injuries they suffer.

If drivers want to waste their money, well that’s their business. Doesn’t bother me if people throw out their uneaten food, drink pints then piss them out, waste money on gambling etc etc, if they want to keep the engine idling while waiting, it’s their money, not mine.

Bass Reeves · 12-02-2022 01:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620205#Comment_118620205

So do you think the crossing guard should have no HI-VIS clothing as in this case it was not effective. Nothing will save you from a twat of a driver like than only either your own or someone else's reaction. It's interesting that he is driving a standard saloon as well not a Crossover or SUV.

The attitude of a lot of pedestrians and cyclists to Hi-Vis clothing reminds me of the attitude of construction workers to Health and Safety when it was first made law and applied. It has had a dramatic effect on construction safety.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620214#Comment_118620214

I walk a good bit on the public road. There is no footpaths I always wear a Hi-Vis sleeved jacket as it's the most effective way for drivers to see me. Could a twat still kill me, yes but the vast majority of drivers will see me earlier.

As I said earlier if it is deemed necessary then yes. I made the point about beacons on Tractors being necessary not because tractor were responsible for a lot of accidents they were involved in but because they were slow moving traffic and were being crashed into.

elperello · 12-02-2022 01:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620254#Comment_118620254

Total road deaths last year were 136.

Due to multiple factors not all bad drivers.

https://www.rsa.ie/news-events/news/details/2022/01/01/2021-records-lowest-number-of-road-fatalities-since-recording-began-in-1959#:~:text=Provisional%20road%20collision%20statistics%20show,fatal%20road%20collisions%20in%202020.

creedp · 12-02-2022 01:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620177#Comment_118620177

More likely the parent doesnt want to experience any reduction in his/her comfort levels. People these days are very concerned with their comforts. With the new EVs allowing preheating its getting to the point that people consider that having their car preheated or cooled is absolutely essential. Even on these driver oriented sites, people almost want cars to drive them around at this point. Seems like it's too much hassle for many to drive on a motorway without lane departure aids and adaptive cruising. I'm probably a dinosaur at this point who I actually like driving the car, hate being a passenger. I've never even used the heated seats or steering wheel on my car. Each to their own I suppose but I wouldn't blame to kids here!

creedp · 12-02-2022 01:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620119#Comment_118620119

Fully agree, look at the choice out there at the moment if you want a 7 seater but dont want a crossover or an oversized SUV. Thats the reason I continue to drive a diesel smax. Was looking to change in 2020 but there was very little choice so just bought a newer smax to tide me over for a few more years.

AndrewJRenko · 12-02-2022 01:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620254#Comment_118620254

Don't think a car has ever managed to kill someone without a driver being involved. Stationary cars don't generally kill people. I suppose there have been a few cases of autonomous cars killing people, but not in Ireland. So the driver seems to be the common denominator in 99% of road deaths. Most road deaths are drivers killing themselves, other drivers or passengers, then pedestrians, then motorcyclists, then cyclists. So it is hard to spin cyclists as being the big danger issue on the roads.

You're correct to say that in SOME cases, cyclists have contributed to their own demise. But such cases are few and far between. Look at the data - drivers are the common denominator in road deaths.

It is very, very much my business that some drivers are ignorant enough to spew out concentrated toxic fumes at places where kids and families are coming and going. They're poisoning other people, for the sake of keeping their tootsies toasty - the ultimate in selfish entitled behaviour.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620320#Comment_118620320

Maybe you'd like to argue against what I actually said instead of making up stuff so you can argue against it? I didn't say anything about what the crossing guard should or shouldn't wear. I'm simply pointing that your obsession with hi-vis is naïve at best and a distraction from addressing real dangers at worst. It is very much an Ireland/UK thing, spreading to parts of the US too. But go on the continent and you don't see people dressing up like construction workers to cycle to school or walk to the shops. The responsibility is on drivers to see all road users, regardless of what they wear. There's never enough hi-vis for drivers who aren't looking.

https://twitter.com/DerbyshireRPU/status/1356374227746770945

Interesting to hear that you wear hi-vis while walking, but no mention of you wearing it while walking to/from your car or fitting hi-vis panels to your car. Why not?

Bass Reeves · 12-02-2022 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620425#Comment_118620425

At a guess you are an office worker or work in an area where being proactive in your own H&S is not an issue.

I dealt with reflective strips on cars in an earlier post from another poster this morning. Yes I wore Hi- Vis jacket leaving my daughter's car last night and returning to it but do I normally no. I access the risk and wear it at the appropriate time. Is there a chance I could get kill going to and from my car yes there is but I

Safety is not a blame game. As I posted earlier we have brought down accident and death numbers significantly over the last 15 years. Even in situations where there is more pedestrians and cyclists on the road.

There was 136 death on Irish roads last year. Pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclist make up a substantial number.

Accross Europe Pedestrians and cyclist deaths are normally 75% urban and 28% rural. In Ireland it's 50/50. How we manage to get those numbers down is important. It not a blame game it's like construction fatalities it a matter of solving the conundrum

athlone573 · 12-02-2022 09:24PM

We got a lot of mileage out of this before it descended to a generic car vs bike thread 😎

Leaving visibility aside, I presume SUV's are less friendly to walkers/bikers as the higher front of the vehicle is more likely to hit them full on as opposed to rolling up onto the bonnet of a normal car? Is that borne out by the safety ratings?

magicbastarder · 12-02-2022 10:38PM

american sized ones are, but in europe i guess the euro NCAP ratings would suggest the answer there. however i don't know if pedestrian warning systems are counted for in that - i.e. whether two otherwise identical cars could score differently if one had better preventative tech built in?

Water2626262 · 12-02-2022 10:40PM

People are saying the height shouldn’t be an issue to other drivers and then you have SUV drivers saying they buy them so they can see over everyone else.

Wonder what the next step will be. Maybe Scania or Volvo can bring a HGV to the passenger market for the ultimate height advantage. Kids can sleep in the bunks and plenty of storage in the trailer.

magicbastarder · 12-02-2022 10:43PM

just looking at the euro ncap ratings, i picked BMW at random. the current 5 series scores 81% for pedestrian safety, and the X5 scores 75%. i don't know how representative that would be though.

13-02-2022 08:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118623001#Comment_118623001

Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t think anyone said they buy them so they can see over everyone else, a few people, including myself, prefer the higher driving position, in which you see more. Again, if you can’t see the road ahead of an SUV, you are tailgating.

Those vehicles already exist, though not in HGV format, known as camper vans. Pretty big yokes.

13-02-2022 08:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118623009#Comment_118623009

The 1 series, a much smaller car than the 5 series has a 76% pedestrian safety rating, 1% more than the X5.

Gant21 · 13-02-2022 08:30AM

Will 1% be a driving factor.

Banana Republic 1 · 13-02-2022 09:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118620254#Comment_118620254

That’s true however running a car like that next to a school should be illegal as air quality drops after all the classic excuse people give for buying “Crossovers” is to protect the children. I see people out for their morning jog next to rush hour traffic that is also horrendously stupid cause like the school kids their breathing in toxic air. If people engaged their brains society would be much better off.

Bass Reeves · 13-02-2022 10:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118623819#Comment_118623819

I do not think any one on this thread who has no issues with crossovers mentioned them as safer for children. What people did say was they were easier to put kids in and out of car seats and to manage car seats in them than standard saloon or hatchback cars

colm_mcm · 13-02-2022 10:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118623819#Comment_118623819

colm_mcm · 13-02-2022 10:23AM

Banana republic. The above post isn’t meant to quote you. That picture is stuck in my drafts due to some Boards glitch. I can’t delete or edit the post either.

just in case you thought I was replying to you or something

Mad_maxx · 13-02-2022 10:35AM

I need an SUV as I've a bad back ,stooping down to strap in the kids is much easier in an SUV

I'm getting a new electric car in August, it's also an SUV

Banana Republic 1 · 13-02-2022 11:40AM

An SUV in my mind is a certain type of vehicle such as a land cruiser, hilux, Ford ranger, Isuzu DMax, Nissan patrol, Mitsubishi pajaro/shogun, VW Amarok, Land Rover defender/discovery. If a wanted a utility vehicle I buy one of those not a Hyundai Or a Kia vw tourag, which is just a 40 grand golf.

AndrewJRenko · 13-02-2022 11:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118621038#Comment_118621038

It's interesting to note the contrast between your commentary on cyclists and hi-vis (blunt, absolute, mentions 'commuting' with no reference to light conditions) compared to your commentary on cars and indeed yourself, which is much more nuanced and based around risk assessment. Is there a reason for this different treatment, other than personal bias of course?

You didn't 'deal' with any explanation as to why cars wouldn't need hi-vis panels on the sides, and on the front and rear when parked, of course.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118623001#Comment_118623001

Have you met the Ford Ranger?

https://twitter.com/OConnorOisin/status/1489931252148887553

13-02-2022 11:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624135#Comment_118624135

The generalised classification of SUVs is.

• Compact crossover.

• Crossover.

• mid sized SUV

• Full sized SUV.

The vehicles you list above are the robust SUVs designed for commercial/farm use where they often are required to have the torque to pull trailers. I doubt very much that they are what the op is referring to. Most SUVs found on our roads fall into the crossover/mid sized SUV groups where they are not 4 wheel drives and are used only for travel on roads.

Those SUVs you mention are also considerably more expensive than most popular SUVs, the Discovery is just shy of 100k, the defender not much less. That’s a lot of wedge for an SUV if like most people you are just going to use it to drive to town.

A VW Touareg is most certainly not a 40k golf in any way shape or form.

Banana Republic 1 · 13-02-2022 04:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118624172#Comment_118624172

“robust SUV” that’s what SUVs are meant to be.

13-02-2022 04:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118625147#Comment_118625147

SUV means sports utility vehicle, they are not necessarily designed to be adequate for use mainly off road and the types we see on Irish roads are rarely four wheel drive, have high torque nor capable of being driven in rough, wet, uneven terrain. Whereas the type you mention above are more robust and designed for off road use, they are often differentiated by being referred to as 4x4s.

So no, the likes of quaskai/sportage/Dusters are designed for road use rather than off road because they lack the tech and robustness to perform in off road rough terrain.

Again, I’m pretty sure the op wasn’t referring to 4x4s driven by builders/farmers, more likely he/she was referring to the smaller types being used as the family car to drive around town.