What is our/ Irish peoples obsession with The Fields Of Athenry song? It's a nice song to sing yes.

Read carefully, it does not bother me in the slightest what people sing in private. Sing to your hearts content IMO.

If you do it to taunt or share a video of it to taunt then that is wrong and that is where apologies are due and should not happen again. The Irish girls humbly and without equivocation, apologised.

Now you will try to alter what I said,,,WHICH WAS NOT that I 'discussed these songs' with anyone. I said something totally different to that.

The idea that a group will set itself up to decide what songs people sing or don't sing is deeply chilling. North Korean/Taliban level stuff.

There is an effort to sow the seeds of division in the rugby team (which is a model of how inclusiveness and accommodation might work) by orchestrating discomforts and offence, that just aren't there.

There is a cohort north and south who ally together to try to wreck initiatives like that.

You said  "Singing ooh Ah Up the 'RA to deliberately taunt or intimidate is totally wrong and always will be, Singing it in a dressing room is not deliberately taunting anyone."

What about those in the dressing room who do not subscribe to your idea that the pIRA were great?

What about those in the dressing room who may have had a relative or friend a victim of the pIRA (and there were hundreds of thousands)?

What about those in the dressing room who do not like their team mates all around them singing up the 'RA?

What about those in the dressing room next door or in the corridor who hear the chants glorifying the paramilitary group?

How would you like it if those in the changing room were singing "Up the UVF"? If you think singing Up the 'Ra is ok, and ok to glorify the paramilitaries on one side, then surely you must think it would be ok to glorify the paramilitaries on the other side?

No wonder most people do not want the kind of united Ireland you do, I do not blame unionists / protestants for not wanting to join a team which chants Up the RA. And do not forget the 'RA murdered Gardai here too.

You did not answer the questions. Do try harder. Answer the questions.

What about those in the dressing room who do not subscribe to your idea that the pIRA were great?

What about those in the dressing room who may have had a relative or friend a victim of the pIRA (and there were hundreds of thousands)?

What about those in the dressing room who do not like their team mates all around them singing up the 'RA?

What about those in the dressing room next door or in the corridor who hear the chants glorifying the paramilitary group?

How would you like it if those in the changing room were singing "Up the UVF"? If you think singing Up the 'Ra is ok, and ok to glorify the paramilitaries on one side, then surely you must think it would be ok to glorify the paramilitaries on the other side?

Then ask yourself again if you should have written " Singing it (up the 'RA) in a dressing room is not deliberately taunting anyone."

There is no hope for a U.I. when S.F. supporters like you see nothing wrong with singing Up the RA in a dressing room.

NOW, Answer the questions.

What about those in the dressing room who do not subscribe to your idea that the pIRA were great?

What about those in the dressing room who may have had a relative or friend a victim of the pIRA (and there were hundreds of thousands)?

What about those in the dressing room who do not like their team mates all around them singing up the 'RA?

What about those in the dressing room next door or in the corridor who hear the chants glorifying the paramilitary group?

How would you like it if those in the changing room were singing "Up the UVF"? If you think singing Up the 'Ra is ok, and ok to glorify the paramilitaries on one side, then surely you must think it would be ok to glorify the paramilitaries on the other side?

Then ask yourself again if you should have written " Singing it (up the 'RA) in a dressing room is not deliberately taunting anyone."

Yes, I dare say most people would.

I don't sing them myself but I do enjoy some historical rebel songs, and indeed have listened without outrage to songs from the other community.

People are going to sing songs Francis. You either accept that reality and try to get them to do it with respect for the other community, or you live forever getting offended by one thing or another.

Take the Parades Commission - once the contentious parades are controlled and people respect others, it is clear that nobody has an issue with the 12th passing off. 100's of parades pass off without anyone saying boo.

That is what I mean re: songs. Ensure to the maximum that nobody deliberately does it to offend or taunt and after that, there is nothing that can be done bar totalitarian thought control methods.

If people are clicking on videos of people singing a song and getting offended...don't click on the video. Don't go to concert by a band that is known to play Irish rebel songs or Loyalist ones. Life is too short.

Yes. If that is upsetting to you and you know that is going to happen.

We are a divided people with different narratives and perspectives. The reality is at the moment that you cannot avoid hearing those narratives and that is not going to change on the island of Ireland today or in a united Ireland.

Work to get people to respect each others perspectives, rather than take the totalitarian approach. Challenge them by all means but respect the other view.

Singing songs to taunt deliberately is wrong, totally wrong, singing songs of your own culture/perspective isn't wrong.

That's my view and if you don't have a workable solution that recognizes that all sides have songs that can be offensive, then this debate between us is done.

Propose solutions, we are well aware of the issues on all sides.

You believing they are wrong is not going to stop it happening.

Now, as you don't have any workable solutions as to how we deal with that reality, I'll leave it until you do present some.

No, I believe it won't happen based on a detailed look at the logistics and challenges that faces anyone from Loyalism/Unionism that wants to do that and how they managed it in the past.

But that does not of course address what solutions you propose to deal with the singing of songs that people on all sides find offensive.

The thread is about The Fields Of Athenry being sung at football matches. Yet you want to make it about SF and the IRA. Neither of whom are singing or mentioned in the song.

Funny I never heard that at the rugby match.

You can inset IRA and SF in to any song you want, but people are much more likely to insert them in to songs which stir up anti-British hatred, as is the case.

You would be the very one who would be complaining if, for example, the Scottish ladies football team was chanting "Up the UVF". Or if there were loyalist songs being sung by the crowd at a Scottish football match, saying for example"the famine is ov-ver, why dooon't youu go homee". With a UVF or UDA chant included in the version in the pub afterwards.

I do see loads of people complaining about football chants and songs. I wouldn't be one of them. Could not be less bothered tbh.

There is not a syllable of the Fields that is 'anti British'.

It is a love song written from the point of view of somebody deported on a prison ship for stealing corn to feed himself and family. by the British Crown.

Plenty in Britain itself would have found themselves in the same position and as somebody pointed out there are Scottish and Welsh versions of this song.

If you talk to a lot of people in N.I., I think you will find they were "very offended" by the pIRA campaign, which some look on there as ethnic cleansing, and clearly - if you ever listened to a loyalist - they do not love the Uh Ah Up the Ra as much as you do.

You thought there was nothing wrong with teams in dressing rooms chanting up the ra.

What do you think of Ferris doing fist pumps when 'RA is inserted in to the Fields of Athenry?

As I said, you would be the very one who would be complaining if, for example, the Scottish ladies football team was chanting "Up the UVF". Or if there were loyalist songs being sung by the crowd at a Scottish football match, saying for example"the famine is ov-ver, why dooon't youu go homee". With a UVF or UDA chant included in the version in the pub afterwards.