What is our/ Irish peoples obsession with The Fields Of Athenry song? It's a nice song to sing yes.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164761#Comment_121164761

He was a civil servant not a colonist

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169425#Comment_121169425

OK. How would you make a song around the topic of the famine, make people with British passports feel better and more included?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169506#Comment_121169506

I don't see why the two would be mutually exclusive. If he was implementing policy of a colonialists government who wanted to colonise the country, then couldn't he be both?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169508#Comment_121169508

I have trawled the internet, followed rugby for years, been to games in Dublin, Belfast and in between and have never heard a single player or supporter express discomfort at the singing of The Fields.

It's manufactured outrage with added racist allegations. The song fascists in full flow now.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169547#Comment_121169547

One could be both but he wasn't. He was a colonial administrator yes but not a colonist as such,

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169506#Comment_121169506

You are entitled to your view.

Somebody who writes his own rules and assiduously implements them, (based on his beliefs) that results in massive suffering and death is more than a civil servant. He is in fact not serving civilians he is subjugating and killing them in this case and it happened in other colonies too.

Not going to argue the case, plenty have done that before me.

Coillte_Bhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169588#Comment_121169588

It's not a view it's a fact. He was employed as a civil servant, obviously not trying to defend him in any way btw

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169689#Comment_121169689

I know he had a job as a civil servant. And I don't think anyone can defend him tbh. I'm sure some will try. 😁

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169548#Comment_121169548

Do you really think they would express their discomfort and raise their head above the parapet to an extremist Republican like you?

Middle class Rugby supporters are too polite for that, they do not want arguments with you at Rugby matches. I know some of them well, very well over the years. And would trust them and they would trust me.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121164850#Comment_121164850

Next thing is Francie Brady along with Martin Ferris will be saying, ah sure, the IRA insert and SF insert in to the fields of Athenry (see your story above) is not offensive to those from unionist / protestant background in N.I. either, sure the IRA was not a sectarian organization, says them. And sure a united Ireland will be good for them.

And anyway sure those 3 rugby international players from N.I. that were nearly killed when the IRA blew up Judge Gibsons car ( with him AND his wife inside ) as they JUST returned across the border (Garda collusion ) in to N.I. were not killed at all, only injured. Only the Judge and his innocent wife were killed, legitimate targets. The 3 rugby players were coming in a car to Dublin to do training, in the wrong place at the wrong time. Francie will probably think they were playing or singing the Fields of Athenry in their car.

Your little story shows there is a tinge of racism / anti-Britishness in the Fields of Athenry, harping back to the suffering during the famine and the cruel British etc...and it did not take long for Martin Ferris ( Sinn Fein TD ) to enjoy the crowd putting in the ( Up the ) IRA jibe.

Do you think the 3 rugby players would agree with Francie Brady the Judge and his wife - the judge from their jurisdiction, of which they were good citizens - should have been blown to pieces?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169849#Comment_121169849

So that would be nobody has said anything, anywhere about being uncomfortable. OK

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169981#Comment_121169981

Do rugby fans sing the IRA part?

Trevelyan and the Crown of the time are soft targets.

The song is not critical of ordinary British(-Irish) people and it would impossible to make a case that it was. There have been Welsh and Scottish versions of the song.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170014#Comment_121170014

I have heard the IRA part live more than once, and obviously Martin Ferris has as well when he anticipated and encouraged it as he entered the pub or whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169992#Comment_121169992

You do not understand Protestants. Some may not mind, others who may sense anti-Britishness ( not far underneath the surface as the story on Martin Ferris illustrated ) do not stick their head up like that in mixed / mostly nationalist company and say it is making them uncomfortable. If you were in their shoes, would IRA chants make you uncomfortable? You think not. Says it all.

growleaves

@Francis McM 'I have heard the IRA part live more than once'

At a rugby match?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170055#Comment_121170055

Last time was in a pub after a rugby match, when people had drink on them. Does not really matter. Still a depressing song.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170062#Comment_121170062

In a pub. So not at a rugby match. As I suspected.

Sad songs are popular because people like experiencing strong emotions including melancholy. If it makes you depressed stay away from sports stadiums and put happy tunes on your earphones then you won't be affected.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170049#Comment_121170049

How would they know I was a 'nationalist' at a rugby game or having pints after? I have been sitting in the stands as an Ulster supporter with Munster fans belting it out.

Not a single word of complaint or sign of discomfort.

Many of the Ulster players (apparently afraid to stick their heads over the parapet) have spoken about the anthem and playing for Ireland openly. Not a word of complaint there either.

But we are supposed to take your claim seriously.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170071#Comment_121170071

“How would they know I was a 'nationalist' at a rugby game or having pints after?”

They’d know alright, even if you never said a word.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170096#Comment_121170096

😀😀 What about my CoI children, would they figure out what they were? Apparently, I 'don't understand' them' and their mum. Maybe these gifted supporters would help. 😁

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170110#Comment_121170110

From behind, the back of your head is a dead giveaway, and your walk.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170124#Comment_121170124

😁😁

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169689#Comment_121169689

Most people with the power to made decisions in any invasion/colonisation/war are civil servants.

You appear to be following the "just following orders" excuse.

ruth...less

It's just a chant.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169425#Comment_121169425

You are making the mistake of equating a certain political persuasion or self-identification with support for historical acts and historical figures. A unionist might be well capable of being a unionist but still recognising that British policy towards the Irish during the famine was terrible.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170693#Comment_121170693

True. Funny to see Irish people manufacturing outrage on behalf of Unionists - where there is zero record of any rugby supporters being upset or uncomfortable.

Its not as if they only started singing FoA just last week. It’s been sung for years and the only people uncomfortable are ‘middle class’ Unionists in Francis’s sitting room apparently. Or do the middle class call it a drawing room?

El_Duderino 09

Christ almighty. If you consider British behaviour in Ireland during the famine to be part of your history and it makes you uncomfortable, that's fair enough. British behaviour in Ireland during the famine was pretty shameful, so shame is appropriate.

I dread to think what songs Unionists would propose as appropriate to sing at the rugby. Something that doesnt make them uncomfortable like the Billy Boys or a nice hymn perhaps? Or more likely, even of they proposed it they'd complain about it and refuse to sing it on some point of principle or another.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171519#Comment_121171519

There are people in Ireland who, when a UI is mentioned will demand on behalf of Unionists that they be allowed take all their 'culture' into a UI, including the 2 month festival of marching and music that anyone could find offensive if they wanted to, being it is triumphalist and a lot of it is designed to celebrate victory over the Cafflicks.

They will demand we appease, by getting rid of flag and anthem and nevermore sing songs about our past that Unionists might find offensive (you see it here) while we must embrace their quazi political sectarian OO.

They cannot grasp that the only way these issues will be sorted is through acceptance of the fact we have a divided past and different narratives about that past.

Everyone has to work at allowing people to have their perspective and to work out how people are allowed to celebrate/commemorate their pasts in a respectful non confrontational way.

Singing ooh Ah Up the 'RA to deliberately taunt or intimidate is totally wrong and always will be, Singing it in a dressing room is not deliberately taunting anyone.

Insisting on marching where you are not wanted is deliberately provocative and taunting, Marching where you are wanted...work away.

Singing Zombie because you think in your bias that it is targeted at one community is also wrong. It is an anti-war song and that is why a crowd at Féile Na Phobail can sing it with as much gusto as a rugby crowd.

Even without a UI, that approach to divisive activities is the only way we can move towards a normal society on this island.

P.S. Maybe people should stop manufacturing outrage on behalf of people who have expressed zero issues with something too.

ruth...less

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121149350#Comment_121149350

I love that op.

I think it's popular cause the chant in between the lyrics...that 'hey baby let the free birds fly' bit people do and in pubs and that it's taken on a kind of Sweet Caroline thing.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171619#Comment_121171619

Sweet Caroline is the perfect example of a song sung at sport just because it is a great tune and has a lyric or chorus that is appropriate and can be sung with gusto.

It's actually though a song written about an Irish-American girl, JFK's daughter, Caroline Kennedy or Neil Diamond's wife, whichever story of it's origin you want to believe.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171594#Comment_121171594

You are totally wrong again. You said aabove " Singing ooh Ah Up the 'RA to deliberately taunt or intimidate is totally wrong and always will be, Singing it in a dressing room is not deliberately taunting anyone."

Singing "uh ah Up the 'ra" in a dressing room is wrong, just as if the Northern Irish team was singing "uh ah up the UVF" in their dressing room would be, if their national soccer team did it, which they did not.

Yet another example of hypocrisy and double standards from Republicans, no wonder most people in N.Ireland (inc many Catholics) do not want to join us.

In your head, in your head, ....forget about you 1916 and up the Ra Francie. And time you condemned Warrington and all the actions of the pIRA.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121170071#Comment_121170071

You have not discussed, in a frank honest and open manner, the issue of anti-British songs with Northern Irish Rugby supporters. As suspected.

As you are a hard core extremist Republican, I do not think they would even feel comfortable discussing politics with you / telling you the truth. They are they for the rugby, not for a fight.