Doping megathread - I can't even think of a witty tagline

breezy1985 · 18-08-2023 10:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994261#Comment_120994261

The difference is some teams blab on about doing things differently and having "thin blue lines".

Kinda similar to the difference between Armstrong and the rest. Another guy who couldn't shut up about how clean he was.

Macy0161 · 18-08-2023 10:34AM

For me, it comes down to what they said versus what they did. Hoist with his own petard.

One of the things about the mpcc was the corticosteroids enforced competition rest period - obviously subsequently it emerged that skineos had used TUE's that would've broken those rules, with high profile riders. IIRC the MPCC accepts that for medical reasons corticoids are the appropriate treatment, just not in or just before competition (a bit like Froome with the Predislone, if you're sick/ injured enough to need them, you shouldn't be racing)

koutoubia · 18-08-2023 10:46AM

For me it became obvious on 'modern day' doping in 4 parts!

Cancellara co-ordinated bike swap (was in Roubaix?) and his dissappearing up the Kappelmuur* leaving Boonen behind like an amateur.

Froome going up L'Alpe D'Huez leaving Quintana standing. On one specific corner Froome's bike was flying and his cadence simply not matching the speed.

Froome in the Giro. What was he 5 mins down..and then has a 'Good Day' and rides away from the best in the world and wins by mins.

Jumbo Visma:

2 or 3 years ago in Paris -Nice and 3 of the team TT-ing away from everyone.

WVA in the tour. Up the road every day. EVERY FU****G DAY for almost 3 weeks.

Roglic and Vingo superb TT'S in the Giro and Tour respectivley.

Sadly I am around long enough to know if it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck and looks like a duck ..its a duck!

nicksnikita · 19-08-2023 09:40AM

Gazzoli the Astana took yesterday’ Arctic Tour of Norway stage after a year of ineligibility resulting from a doping infraction.

Brian? · 19-08-2023 10:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994261#Comment_120994261

Say what you want about Gerlosteiner, it has just the right amount of bubbles for a hot day.

Paddigol · 23-08-2023 03:11PM

Head of Athletics Integrity Unit takes aim at doping policies of other sports | Athletics | The Guardian

It's funny how the average barstool sports fan will immediately reference doping when cycling comes up, and yet almost every other sport gets more than the benefit of doubt. Has doping ever been remotely discussed seriously in the context of say football, rugby or in the country, GAA?

But cycling must eternally apologise.

The more money that's pumped into football, the further under the carpet the issue of doping is pushed.

cletus · 23-08-2023 03:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017044#Comment_121017044

It's a point I've made repeatedly to fans of football, GAA, rugby etc. and it get pooh-poohed.

Coming from a background in martial arts (MMA), and having worked as a personal trainer (particularly in a power lifting/strongman gym), I'm more than familiar with the idea of athletes doping.

It may be the cynic in me, but I don't believe for a second that the top sports people in every sport aren't doping to some degree. There's too much at stake, the margins at the top are too slim, and as the saying goes, 'if you're not cheating, you're not trying'.

breezy1985 · 23-08-2023 06:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017044#Comment_121017044

Just show them Fuentes admission to the doping of Spanish World Cup winners or Cascarino and Cappelo's comments on "vitamins" in soccer.

Then you have Messi's growth hormone drugs and the injected pain killers that are routine in soccer.

cletus · 23-08-2023 06:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017835#Comment_121017835

This is just a brief overview of football, doesn't even touch on other major sports.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3E3hZyx-8BQ&si=eGDPQqMCWusPaZyx

I watched amateur strongman competitiors take nandralone and dianobol to take part in local or regional competitions, that they had to pay to enter, to win trophies that nobody outside their small group would know anything about, much less care about.

The idea that pro athletes, with the money that's at stake, are not seeking out anything that will give them an edge is, to me, nonsense.

CramCycle · 23-08-2023 07:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121017835#Comment_121017835

They don't care though, that's the difference. Cycling (although only certain nations) and to a slightly less extreme Athletics care. Other sports don't, we are outliers in our disgust. I still despise it, just get that we are not the norm , particularly in this part of the world.

breezy1985 · 23-08-2023 07:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018117#Comment_121018117

Soccer will never damage "the brand" the way cycling did and rugby is thoroughly up its own hole about being a sport of gentleman who play the game in the right spirit.

dahat · 23-08-2023 09:17PM

In many sports athletes are assets and regularly play with painkilling injections to compete. Soccer especially is rife with this & it amazes such actions are widely accepted & almost applauded.

Nadal another one who has terrible injuries to his joints but for years has been playing with injections but again no attention to that.

breezy1985 · 23-08-2023 09:37PM

Pep Guardiola has failed 2 drugs tests as a player but gets to be included in "greatest ever manager" conversations with no mention of the incredible running stats of his teams and possible connections.

Michelle Smith was rightly questioned because of her connections as were many cyclists but not Peps teams.

Macy0161 · 11-09-2023 08:56AM

Given all the commentary around JV, I'm surprised the weekend turnaround hasn't raised any eyebrows - quickest performance turnaround since Landis? Or is it only TT's that people throw shade at?

dahat · 11-09-2023 09:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095629#Comment_121095629

It was discussed in the race thread. Once he hit 7-10 mins down he just rolled in like a Sunday spin.

Junior · 11-09-2023 09:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095629#Comment_121095629

The collapse raises more questions than the revival. Almedia had a bad day, shipped a couple of minutes. I thought Remco was so far down he was going to climb off.

Squidgy Black · 11-09-2023 11:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095712#Comment_121095712

Does it though? By all accounts they just gave up and said f it let’s take a breather and just get in before the time cut, we can stage hunt instead of suffering through to keep the loss to a minimum and then being bolloxed for the following day

griffin100 · 11-09-2023 01:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018661#Comment_121018661

Zinedine Zidane used to get lauded for having homologous blood transfusions to rebuild his body, it was taken as a sign of his professionalism. That's doping. I doubt football is as squeaky clean as they like to make out, same with tennis, golf, GAA, rugby and probably all other sports.

My son who plays both football and rugby tells me that lads on his Junior C football team take 'steroids' in the gym (not sure what they are) and that they are easily available. Whenever you raise the issue of PEDs in the GAA you get the usual response of sure how could drugs make you better, it's all about skill. Given the cross over in players between his two teams I have no doubt his rugby mates are at the same thing. It's depressing tbh, especially the blind eye that's turned to it in Ireland. You see stories of rugby players becoming addicted to tramadol and talk of players taking cocktails of pills to play. The current Irish management team have form in this.

Yet cycling is the sport most associated with doping.

On a lighter note if you want to see how far normal people will go to cheat have a read of https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/ - it's very entertaining.

breezy1985 · 11-09-2023 01:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096737#Comment_121096737

That's gas. I wonder how many actually do it to run the marathons for free rather than just get the fuking Instagram pics at the finish.

Macy0161 · 11-09-2023 01:27PM

I was being a bit facetious tbh, but if the Tour winner, the giro winner and the best mountain domestic of the last few years (who was let in, and gained all his time in a break) is a sign of doping, why isn't such an immediate turnaround?

dahat · 11-09-2023 01:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095712#Comment_121095712

It’s a mentality thing for me. Kelly eluded to this in comms, has to be analysed for future GT prospects. After that **** show he will always be the outsider of the main GT contenders for the TDF next year.

CramCycle · 11-09-2023 05:09PM

I thought Remcos turnaround made sense. Was down to far to ever be realistically in contention but still too close to be let in a breakaway so just rolled it in like a recovery spin. Hardly controversial or suspicious.

Mefistofelino · 11-09-2023 05:53PM

Two questions about this were raised on another forum over the weekend.

1) If Remco is doping, wouldn't it make a heap more sense to do it to avoid collapsing in the first place, rather than to get a consolation prize?

3) Bardet finished Stage 13 only four minutes ahead of Remco, and was able to stay with Remco for almost the entire breakaway on Stage 14. But no-one is suggesting anything untoward about his performance.

griffin100 · 11-09-2023 07:24PM

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/12040/12959350/paul-pogba-juventus-midfielder-provisionally-suspended-for-anti-doping-offence

I’m shocked - tip of the iceberg

dahat · 11-09-2023 07:41PM

Someone definitely ratted Pogba out within Juventus. He is a handy scapegoat for the vast problems at the club.

Thousands more could be caught if the authorities really went after football players.

griffin100 · 11-09-2023 08:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121098520#Comment_121098520

That’s what I thought when I read this - someone’s either fcuked up or he’s been shafted. I’d wager there’ll be no discussion of if he was taking PEDs when at Man U in the UK press.

Brian? · 11-09-2023 09:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121018134#Comment_121018134

I spent the best part of 20 years strength training - I know who’s on gear or not pretty easily. Rugby players are up to their eyes in it.

breezy1985 · 11-09-2023 10:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099086#Comment_121099086

Ya that's true. Armstrong was protected for years even after the bubble burst.

Cycling did at least have some whistleblowers although they were ignored and bullied for many years.

dahat · 11-09-2023 10:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121098739#Comment_121098739

He was hardly taking PED that worked at Old Trafford.

Another view of this is that athletes in certain sports are effectively assets with many people relying on them to perform or be fit to perform. This may force lead to taking PED in certain situations sadly.

CramCycle · 11-09-2023 10:44PM

Cycling and athletics, particularly in this part of the world went after them selves hard. The truth is, in other parts of Europe, the Americas and so on, they really don't care at all. This said Ireland and the UK have blinkers then for other sports, it is almost accepted, a bit like wrestling, that you had to do it to compete. I worked in bars in South Dublin for years, you knew which Rugby lads were on stuff by the clearance rates of their kidneys. You have national players admitting to taking tablets and injections on radio to keep going. You have soccer players having team doctors admit to blood bags to aid recovery and not understand that it is doping. An in law a competitive runner could pick out the athletics runners who had started taking stuff. He laughed whenever anyone mentioned a new trend training technique after they had a good race, they would be gone from all the meets for a few months. Mo over in the UK was the very same, he raced against him and his coach pulled him from the finish line after he won a race after being a mid pack runner for ages with nothing indicating he would ever be a podium level runner at international competition. Lads in cycling here turning around at races when they seen the doping control being set up, one where the rider actually started hiding and then eventually just went home as a family member kept "accidentally" getting in the way while they looked for him. Tennis and their long holidays. At this point I don't care anymore. I am going to wait until I am, to the best of my knowledge, in my twilight years, and then I am going to take all the drugs, based on some of the ICVA races I have seen in the past I might even have a chance against some my own age. See a rider sucking an inhaler like its a lollipop after the Sky asthma story in the middle of a race and laughing about it down in Wexford.

Doping megathread - I can't even think of a witty tagline

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