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Tour de France 2023 ***spoilers*** Warning in OP

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    That was my thinking, he knew if he stopped they would slow greatly as both would be confident of the win from most of the chasers. By him keeping going, he hoped it would remain a 3 up sprint. He might get lucky and JV marks Pog, he either follows or gets away by pure luck in the last few 100m. Either way, he was aiming to secure a podium with an outside shot at winning the stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    That is bullshit. He attacked on stage 5,14 and 15. Countered everything Pog had to throw at him. Put on a masterclass of a TT and then on stage 17 put on a masterclass of a climbing performance, dropped everybody and cycled through the break like they were stopped.

    The only other attacks that happened this race were breakaways or Pog going for bonus seconds. Maybe if JV had attacked more he would not have had the strength for the TT and stage 17. While he looks like a robot I'm pretty sure he's not.


    Also people complaining the tour was over after 16/17. When is the tour not already over by that day? There was only 1 more chance for Pog anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,660 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Apparently Jonas said he is going to the Vuelta alongside Rog!

    Rog/Jonas vs Remco vs Ayuso (+ Pog???)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,035 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Just what we need. Another foregone conclusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke


    To me it looked like Vingegaard was telling Gall that he would do turns with him. He was making the "do turns" hand gesture anyway. I imagine he also wanted their group to remain at 3. I didn't see him make much of an effort though after that. So who knows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭cunavalos


    Ciccone must have following this thread, he has gone all out today- bike, pedals and garmin all added to the rest of his ensemble




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,084 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Now I remember why I don't watch the tour on ITV4. Ad breaks go on forever



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,035 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Pog attacks but Jumbo on the ball and look to have successfully protected their 7 minute lead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    🤣

    Why on earth won't van Hooydonck give him a twist. Lord above



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,035 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke


    I didn't think that it was possible for a team to have tactics that annoyed me more than Sky. Jumbo have done well this Tour, but this is very unlikable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,872 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    Jumbo still won’t ride with extra riders away now , pathetic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    Just texted a mate of mine saying the same thing. I hate Jumbo Visma



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke


    Unless he's doing it for Laporte. But still.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    Whatever happens I really hope it's not Philipsen who wins. Odds on that are pretty small but basically anyone but Philipsen for me. Even Laporte🤣



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,035 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Te be honest after several km of them sitting at the front drinking champagne and slapping each other's back they should have sat back and stayed out of it. Van Barle there just killed himself to bring them back. Absolute joke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭at1withmyself


    Pog would be confused without a jumbo jersey behind him!

    How come the other sprint teams don't let alpecin work to being the break back, they're getting a free ride for now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    Ya. I can't understand this. It's not like 2nd place matters, and bringing Philipsen to the line pretty much guarantees they'll be fighting for 2nd



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    I think Bora???



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,738 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Meeus out of absolute nowhere after being completely anonymous all tour. Fair play to him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭at1withmyself


    I'd be delighted if he done it but that was close. He had huge pressure after being called in to replace Bennett



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,660 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    A wild Meeus appears!

    Post edited by retalivity on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    That's going to make things a little awkward round here 😄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,033 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Meeus justifies his selection with a single throw of the bike. Delighted for him given the questioning of his selection and ability when he was named in the team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭at1withmyself


    Ya I think Bora were justified not bringing Bennett based on his performance this year but sadly for Sam this confirms it

    Hopefully Sam can ride the Veulta



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    Yeah, brilliant tactics from Meeus to spend 22 days completely non-existent in the race and then pop up to win the most prestigious sprint finish. If he were a racehorse, the trainer and jockey would be pulled by the ear half way across the road to explain the amazing improvements 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    He had four top 10s and got switched into the barriers on another stage. Not exceptional but actually better than Sam's TdF debut I think?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,033 ✭✭✭griffin100


    The Eurosport interviews with random riders as they pass by are really entertaining. The riders are so relaxed now that the slog is over and are very open. Sagan is soooo done with the Tour.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Fair play to Meuss, absolutely delighted for him. Still not convinced it justified not bringing Bennett but for Meuss it is brilliant. Fair play to him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 298 ✭✭this.lad


    They weren't getting much drama out of him to be fair.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭G1032


    62km/hr Mohoric crossed the line on the stage he won. That's after sprinting from about 350m (or thereabouts). 27s out of the saddle at full gas. Mindboggling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,033 ✭✭✭griffin100


    Do you think Bennet would have won multiple stages if brought?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Well that’s that lads. It’s been a pleasure. I did absolutely shite in the league. But enjoyed interacting with he all.


    see yis all for the Vuelta thread!

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Special thanks to eagle eye and Squidgy Black ( and anyone else I've forgotten) for posting up the stage info each day.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Well, yes and no. iMHO, Bora had planned for GC, hoping that they would be a surprise. That fell apart after a reasonable start. They were never going to provide Bennett or Meuss with proper support. I think Bennett could have went either way but he would have provided more competition for Green than most there, so it's certainly possible he would have one or two, if not more but for Bora, he wins a stage early it would highlight their lack of support (which all the other teams would know anyway).

    Either way, fair f*cks to Meuss, that was a great sprint and a great win. One thing to win a sprint stage, another to get around the tour and win one against people whose teams were targeting it. Genuinely over the moon for him. Anyone talking about doing nothing for 20 stages, Jesus, getting around 20 stages in the time limit is a feat for most elite cyclists. It's an epic achievement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭cunavalos


    Stall the ball, what about the pointless analysing and criticising of each team performance

    Jumbo - Controlled the race won with ease but did not get a Wout stage win. Got what they needed from the Tour. Grade A

    UAE - The plan was to win the tour with Tadej and ultimately unsuccessful but team was improved. Ended up with 3 stage wins as well as 2nd and 3rd overall but failed in number one objective Grade B+

    Bahrain - 3 stage wins with 3 different riders and a 6th place overall.More than they could have expected even with Landa firing blanks, Bauhaus also consistent in the early sprints . Grade B+

    INEOS - 2 Stage wins and 5th in GC. Realistically this is as much as they could have expected but not what a team of their budget aspires to. They should be content but question marks remain. I will give Pidcock's grand tour credentials a pass until after the olympics and doubtful if Bernal can recover his form and if that form is good enough to compete for GC in a grand tour again. Grade B-

    Groupama FDJ - Meh the Pinot / Gaudu combination didn't work but you can't argue against bringing Pinot for a farewell tour, rode solidly. As for Gaudu he was a long way off being able to compete. Grade C

    AG2R - Ben O'Connor failed to deliver on their GC ambitions but tried valiantly and emptied himself in support of Gall later on who spared their blushes in the final week with a very impressive showing. Grade B

    Bora Hansgrohe - It was in hindsight a weak squad and under-performed for most of the tour but have two stage wins, a day in yellow and a top 10. Meeus' win on Champs Elysee bumps them up a grade. Grade B-

    Cofidis - 2 stage wins, overall top 10 and a solid performance by Coquard in the sprints. Grade A

    Team Jayco AlUla - Entered the tour looking at stage wins and a shot at the overall podium. Fell short of both so it has to be a disappointment. Grade C

    Israel Premier Tech - Michael Woods stage win on the Puy de Dome saves the tour for them, realistically a team like theirs needs to invest in a sprinter to have an impact. Credit also to Kris Neilands for his efforts in the breaks. Grade B-

    Movistar - Losing Mas on Day 1 meant they really should have packed up and gone home. Jorgensen showed glimpses but ultimately was also struggling before he went home. Grade D but unlucky

    Arkea-Samsic - Gugliemi got in a few breaks but nothing else Grade D

    Team DSM-Firmenich - Not a fan of the team anyway but seriously underperformed in all aspects. Bardet was a loss but was heading backwards before his crash Grade D

    Lidl-Trek - Bit of a mixed bag, I actually expected more from them but when the chips were down they got a stage win and the KOM jersey and were always visible throughout. Skjelmosse didn't have it for GC this time but dug deep to help out the team Grade B-

    Lotto Dstny - Caleb was there or thereabouts in the sprints but you could sense there were issues in the team before they abandoned him ( or he abandoned them depending on your sources) Lots of unhappy 2nd tier sprinters looking for a new home next year but Lotto will likely be all in on De Lie. Campanaerts always animates without getting the results he deserves and the team ended up with 3 second places in very different terrain. Grade C-

    Total Energies - Anonymous Grade D

    Uno X - Probably a year too late for Kristoff and a year too early for some of the other riders. Justified selection and hopefully improve squad for next year. Grade C

    Alpecin - 4 stage wins two seconds and a green jersey would immediately have you thinking Grade A+ but I think they left a little behind them a few missed opportunities. Might be a little harsh but Grade A-

    Soudal Quick Step - Jakobsen's crash was a major setback and it rarely happens that a rider can shake off a major crash like and recover to be competitive within the same grand tour. Alaphilippe obviously tried hard but is obviously lacking the top end from a few years ago. Asgreen saved some blushes late on in Stages 18 and 19 but still not good enough. Grade C+

    Astana Qazaqstan - It was all about Cavendish and with losing him and Leon Sanchez in the space of a couple of days killed the Tour de France for them. Grade D

    Intermarche Circus Wanty - Grmay never looked like challenging the sprints and Meintjes was already struggling for a decent GC position before his crash Grade D

    EF Education Easypost - Carapaz' crash was a big loss but the team still underperformed massively, a squad of Powless, Uran, Bettiol, Cort and Amador should have done much better. Powless' attempt at polka dots doesn't count as any form of redemption. Grade E (One of the worst performing teams in the Tour given the calibre of rider)

    Overall you can get a gauge for team performances by the number of UCI points collected by each team during the Tour. The performances sort of tally with my grades with the exception of Jayco ALUla who i still think underperformed even if they got a reasonable haul of points while Alpecin, AG2R and Cofidis overperformed relative to expectations.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,204 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The Total Energies review is hilariously accurate.

    They could have done a "Pinot" with Sagan by just getting him in some breaks but there seemed to be no interest.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Seen the interview with Sagan after and I thought he had just been brought in for a sound bite, hadn't even realised he was racing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Sagan couldn't even summon up the energy to be apathetic. TE obviously had him contractually obliged to line out at the TdF - while he wanted to be anywhere else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,660 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    There really is bugger all UCI points for the KOM or points jerseys, going by that graph. Now you can only win the green jersy by winning stages and intermediate sprints which brings additional points, but i guess it shows how the KOM has little interest in it, other than prestige. The likes of AG2R who need UCI points were better with Gall and O'Connor going for high stage finishes than chasing KOMs



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Someone brought up sports washing; cycling are really in the half penny place.

    A current bid by a Saudi team for one player at his peak (€300M)is greater than the combined budget of the top 18 cycling teams.

    And Pinot or anyone else you want to choose has more heart and character in his little toe than the €300M pre Madonna but I digress 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse



    No he's on a smoke break 😁

    Still 7 green jerseys and a good few stages

    Taught Sam how to do wheelies 😀



    Seven Worlds will Collide



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    Decent write up of tech side of Vingegaard’s TT performance:

    TLDR - marginal gains



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,522 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    So he maintained 20 watts over his target for the entire TT but didn't see any drop in performance towards the end or subsequent fatigue in the next days? As Kelly would say "when you feel you are on a good day then you just have to go for it".

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭traco


    Really enjoyed that article. Thanks for sharing!



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