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Irish Under-20's 2023

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I thought I’d put together as definitive a pool as possible for next year’s u20. I sourced from the NTS list (everyone just finished last year of school), anyone eligible in an academy, anyone called up to the u19 camp this last Christmas, and anyone who played in japan/france games this year. I’ve almost certainly made mistakes so corrections welcome.

    The labels are self explanatory. NTS is basically the sub academy. Anyone without any label was called into a camp but isn’t on an NTS list. However that list came out last October so some of those guys or all of them might now be on there in actuality.

    TH Prop

    • Bishop - IQ 
    • Calvey - Munster (u19) (NTS)
    • Deay - Leinster
    • Longstaff - Ulster (NTS)
    • Mullan - Leinster (u19) (NTS)
    • Sparrow - Leinster (NTS)

    LH Prop

    • Boyd - Ulster (Acad) 
    • Fitzgerald - Munster (u19) (NTS)
    • Hopkins - Connacht (NTS)
    • Howard - Leinster 
    • O Riordan - Leinster 

    Hooker

    • D Sheahan - Munster (NTS)
    • Smyth - Leinster (NTS)
    • Solomon - Ulster (Acad) 
    • Walker - Ulster/IQ (Acad) 

    Lock

    • Colreavy - Leinster
    • Gleeson - IQ
    • Hopes - Ulster (Acad) 
    • McKillop - Ulster (NTS)
    • K Novak - Munster (NTS)
    • D Novak - Munster (NTS)
    • O Connell - Munster (Acad)
    • O Connor - Leinster 
    • O Loughlin - Leinster 
    • Spicer - Leinster (u19) (NTS)

    Back Row

    • Bamber - Connacht (u19) (NTS)
    • Brigg - Ulster (Acad) 
    • Edogbo - Munster (NTS)
    • Flynn - Connacht (NTS)
    • Gleeson - Munster  (Acad) 
    • Lee - Ulster 
    • Molloy - Connacht (NTS)
    • Murphy - Munster (u19) (NTS)
    • J Sheahan - Munster (NTS)
    • Stevens - Ulster (Acad)
    • Usanov - Leinster (u19) (NTS)
    • Ward - Ulster (NTS)
    • Whelan - Leinster 
    • Wilson - Leinster 

    9

    • Armstrong - Ulster (u19) (NTS)
    • Brophy - Leinster (NTS)
    • Coffey - Leinster (NTS)
    • Farthing - Connacht (u19) (NTS)
    • O’ Riordan - Munster (NTS)

    10 

    • Hicks - Munster (Acad) u19 
    • Murphy - Leinster (NTS)
    • Naughton - Leinster (NTS)

    Centre

    • Berman - Leinster (NTS)
    • De Klerk - Leinster 
    • Ellerby - Ulster (NTS)
    • Gavin - Connacht (NTS)
    • Kritzinger - Leinster (NTS)
    • Larke - Leinster (NTS)
    • O Donovan - Munster (u19) (NTS)
    • Sheridan - Leinster 

    Back 3 

    • Colbert - Leinster 
    • Condon - Munster 
    • Farrell - Leinster u19 (NTS)
    • Fenelon - Leinster (NTS)
    • Fox - Connacht 
    • Graham - Ulster (Acad)
    • Grant - Connacht (u19) (NTS)
    • Kenny - Ulster (Acad) 
    • Kiely - Munster (NTS)
    • McFarlane - Ulster (Acad) 
    • McLaughlin - Leinster (NTS)
    • O’ Connor - Munster (Acad) 
    • O’ Dwyer - Munster (u19) (NTS)
    • Pepper - Munster 
    • Treacy - Leinster 




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    My main takeaways after doing that is that next year should be a good year for ulster, and that TH prop, and back three look strong to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 tindjim1990


    Back three and backrow look very strong, halfbacks look like a big step down on what we had this year. I hope Japan u19s were an unusually strong outlier year for them and caught a cold ireland with limited time and cohesion in those couple games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    A bit of both, maybe? They only had a few days to train because of cup finals and it showed. In comparison, Japan looked very well organised after weeks of being together and their line speed put us in bother. Their u20s were poor this year but I thought they showed some incredible attacking rugby at times, they’re doing something right I think.

    We’ll definitely improve imo, we had Italy and wales fairly well beat at u18 level with this group which should count for something. Big losses to France are telling though. We were missing Gleeson, O'Connell, Gavin and Sparrow against Japan who will all probably start next year.

    Post edited by Locke_Lamora on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I’m interested in seeing Hicks. In the academy at 18 from a club background is some going. It’s actually the u19s i’m most interested in as well as the ulster guys. Murphy from Munster, the back row and Farrell from Leinster, the winger, are both exciting players apparently.

    For Ulster, we have 10 academy players by my count eligible for this team. I would expect all but maybe walker to make it. I’d expect McKillop and Longstaff as well. That would be close to our highest representation in years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Longstaff will be behind at least the two Leinster TH's, surely? There are a few similar quality backrowers with Gleeson being the only certainty, but McKillop being able to play in the second row as well might be a point in his favour.

    I think our squad representation will be up, but don't think there will be too many in the 1XV. Three is my guess, with McFarlane and Hopes benching.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Behind Sparrow and Mullan? yea possibly. But three THs get in the squad.

    I think Hopes starts with McConnell. Its hard so say who starts but just getting 9-12 in a 33 man squad would be good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    I was thinking he'd be behind Sparrow and the lad that started against Japan, Deay I think.

    9-12 is a bit much isn't it? Munster and Leinster both beat us in the interpros last year. Boyd, Hopes, Kenny, McFarlane and Stevens are the only near certainties imo, everyone else 50/50 or 60/40.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Obviously things can change, but Deay isn’t on the NTS list and Mullan and Sparrow are. That doesn’t necessarily mean anything. And i guess the u19 camp last december is closer than the NTS list to now.

    You are probably right though.

    As far as I know there is a lot of central input into who does or doesn’t get into an academy. I’ve always thought that academy inclusion is basically a guaruntee of inclusion as Murphy himself is involved to some extent with everything from the NTS to academy decisions. Academy contracts are irfu contracts not provincial. I also can’t really remember a fit academy player who didn’t make the u20s.

    However, it was a really big academy class so its a good test of the theory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 tindjim1990


    Farrell looked quite good for the u18 7s recently, hope size doesnt factor against him as the levels increase and academy spots are up for grabs, Murphy for Munster looks like a big mobile unit - will be interesting to see what position he ends up not sure what his physical stats are he could be a 6/8. The second rows and no.6 could all be rotated around between O'connell, Mcillop, Hopes and Murphy., 8. is clearly locked down as Gleeson's - But 7 could be a shoot out between 5 or 6 guys as theres a bunch of lads at roughly the same level there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Ronan Foxe wasn't on the published NTS list either and ended up favoured over an academy player. Deay wouldn't have started two games if he wasn't in the coaches thinking, I imagine there is constant re-assessment of players throughout the year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭typhoony


    Will be interesting to see what they do with Spicer, having a big unit in the 2nd row at u20's level is a big advantage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Longstaff did start one of the game against france. Can’t find the team sheet for the other one.

    You feel very strongly about Deay and honestly i have no real idea so im happy to pencil him in.

    The one thing i would say is that they don’t blend in u18s (u19s next year) usually until next year so its possible that mullan and calvey have something to say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    Not sure I agree with this. I don't think his performance impacted the outcome (France always likely to win) but probably the score.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭typhoony


    I thought the other big unit in the Belvo 2022 schools cup team in the 2nd row was actually a better player than Spicer, Eddie Rees I think it was who had a few games in the AIL for Clontarf last year, but I don't think he got picked up by any of the academys



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Wyse should be involved and compete for the 1 shirt with Boyd. I'm not sure if there's any locks at Leinster that will crack the 23. Colreevy is eligible? There's another lad from Newbridge that is rated. Can't remember his name! It seems like the pack next year will have a good mix from the provinces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    I don't feel any particular way about him tbh, only seen two games. Selfishly, I hope Longstaff makes it because we are in dire need of serviceable props coming through and we've just taken in two props who didn't play for Ireland u20's into the academy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Just seen the interpro fixture schedule for this year:

    Seems like a change from the previous few years where all the u18 games seemed to be held at the same venue down south. A welcome change imo, I quite liked attending these previously, although the IRFU were generally pretty good at posting highlights.

    Seems like there's a change in the actual matches as well - no game against the IQ side for the u18 schools, instead playing our u19's. The u18 game against Connacht is listed as a 'friendly' whereas there are two games each against Leinster and Munster, so I think that means the schools side is playing an extra game than previously, which should be beneficial.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    There was an Academy vs. AIL Select yesterday at Gibson Park - anybody any ideas how it all went?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    That changed last year. It was back to home/away for 18s interpros. Hope they move back to the one venue. Was very good to see all games/teams across a week in one venue. A different venue to limerick. Could brihn it to sportsground/Belfast as well

    Iq used to have 19s as well as 18s play he provinces anyway


    18s game against Connacht for schools is a Friendly as Connacht only play the youths interpros. Shame we are seeing more and more players listed in clubs squad as with one of the schools though.

    The schools have played 2 games v Munster and leinster before as well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Didn't know realise most of that, thanks. Completely missed it last year.

    Limerick's a five hour drive from me so no chance of making it for age-grade games. Wouldn't be so bad if they held the tournament in one place and rotated the location round the provinces, but even then I'd get watching it once every four years. I'd rather keep this format, then I'd get to see two games every year at least, but I suppose it's more about what works best for the kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Colreavy seems to be eligible. I think Spicer is as well. Although ive heard mixed stuff on him beyond his size.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I feel like Wilson will be good but yea we need more. I have highish hopes for the whole u19 contingent of this intake. But if Boyd could work out as well that would be massive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I watched Colreavy v Michael's and Zaga. Hw was ok. Not a very big lad.

    Spicer is good in the maul and scrum. Massively big lad. Does not miss many tackles either. I think he could be good if given a time frame like Dev. He's as big as Dev.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    If Spicer is eligible, i’d def have him in the squad at least for development. That size is rare.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I think the IRFU and provinces would prefer the one venue set up as they can run workshops etc with all players together. You can do things with all 8 under 18 squads in the one venue for a week that isnt possible with games home/away over a month

    it definitely should rotate around provinces with Sportsground/GMIT or NUIG and Queens as well as Dbrook etc hosting a round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Yea I was thinking that. I remember watching a youtube video they released a few years ago which showed the kids getting group lectures and video sessions, so in a way it's sort of their first taste of professionalism. They probably get to interact with other squads more which is a plus.

    Having it all together as an event might grab a bit more local interest as well. They seem to love playing at Newforge and that was before the new pitch was added but I much prefer Queens where you can actually get a decent view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm not sure if he's going to make the step up next year. But the potential is there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 267 ✭✭conquestscarer


    When he has a frame like that it is almost worth rolling the dice on him and getting him high-level coaching. At 17 he looks to be bigger than any of our seniors currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭ljsulster




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Ah! Might go then



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 298 ✭✭Number 137


    I literally said that the referee didn't affect the outcome. I just said that his performance was poor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Scotland just lost to Uruguay in the 20s trophy so will be in that competition again next year.

    They now play Samoa in 3rd/4th playoff while Urguay play Spain in final to decide who will join the 20s World championship next year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭Shehal


    I watched the game and it was a totally deserved win for Uruguay. Scotland offered absolutely nothing for the whole game and relied on driving mauls to bail them out whereas Uruguay themselves scored some cracking tries, It would be a defeat for rugby if Scotland won. Im happy now as either way ill be happy with whoever gets promoted as I really like Spain as well.


    Could be tricky for Scotland next season with Japan being relegated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    They will have to qualify for the U20 world trophy next season in a European event played in November.


    Spain would be their main competition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Excellent news.

    Not so great for Scotland, it’s been a rough few years for them at this level. The u20s to professional pipeline is never straightforward and other factors with regards to professional development will come into play, but two straight years in the trophy does not bode well for their future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Well not if Spain qualify for the JWC, in that case it most likely will be Portugal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Spain just won the trophy so 2 non 6 nations now in the world championship and scotland still in trophy. U20 6 nations needs to change and not match the senior mens to give more countries chance to improve.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭Shehal


    And it was an utterly fabulous final! Watching it it was almost like choosing between you're 2 kids who you prefer as I thought both were brilliant it would been brilliant if both could qualify for the JWC next year!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,873 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I just came on to post the same thing.

    Why can't Spain and Georgia be added to make it a 8 Nations or even two pools of 4 or something like that? Giving these guys a bit more exposure to top level at their age group can only benefit their countries development. It seems an absolute no brainer to involve these countries in the U20 6Ns (or whatever it would be called).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Totally. The only way the 11th to 20th ranked sides will improve is by playing the 1st to 10th more often

    2 pools of 4 would still allow 5 games with playoffs after group games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Spain qualified next year. Great to see. When are the groups announced?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    The groups are decided already. They are based on where teams finished this year

    Fixtures and venues won't be until some time next year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Munster schools were beating Ulster 26-0 by the time I left.

    Game was riddled with mistakes but Munster were good value for their lead. We were camped in the Munster 22 for most of what I saw and I never once thought we were likely to score. Munster had 13 men at one point and still won the period 7-0 with an intercept.



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